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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Can we now finally get rid of 'Do they know it's Christmas'?

668 replies

Tokenminority · 08/06/2020 15:03

This song drives me absolutely up the wall. It's patronising, reductive, and it completely harms efforts towards equality.

I understand the focus on equal opportunities and stopping police brutality, but other narratives, such as the pictures painted in the 'Do they know it's Christmas' song, can be just as harmful.

'Africa' is not a country. You did not go on holiday to 'Africa', similarly to how you wouldn't have sent that you went on holiday to 'Europe' when you in fact went to France.

Of course there are major problems surrounding poverty on the African continent, just as there are in other places, but African countries are not only filled with begging, malnourished children who have never seen a Christmas present.

The picture attached is a photograph of Lagos. If I went on the street and asked random people on which continent that photo was taken, would anyone even consider the possibility that it may have been Africa?

Can we now finally get rid of 'Do they know it's Christmas'?
OP posts:
terrywynne · 27/11/2020 13:07

@7Days

What's that old saying.

"Its better to light a candle than curse the darkness ".
Thats what Geldof et all, and everyone who contributed were doing. It's something to be encouraged and celebrated, especially when the stakes were so so high and the timeframe for action so short.

Wanting to erase it 40 years later, to curse the darkness, for reasons that amount to offence taken, is just so out of proportion.

But saying you want rid of a song ie: you don't want it rolled out every Christmas and played ad nauseam in shops, on radio, on tv music channels is not the same as erasing it or erasing Geldof etc's contribution. The song will still exist on YouTube, Spotify, CD, record even. The news reports, the photos will all still be there in the historical record showing what people did to make a change. Documentaries, films, tv series about the period will still be able to use the song and the footage of Live Aid . It just won't be an intrinsic part of the British Xmas experience...
VinylDetective · 27/11/2020 13:07

@7Days

What's that old saying.

"Its better to light a candle than curse the darkness ".
Thats what Geldof et all, and everyone who contributed were doing. It's something to be encouraged and celebrated, especially when the stakes were so so high and the timeframe for action so short.

Wanting to erase it 40 years later, to curse the darkness, for reasons that amount to offence taken, is just so out of proportion.

That’s a beautiful saying. I haven’t heard it before but it’s absolutely spot on.
Omeara · 27/11/2020 13:09

I was at school when this song was released. We did a project on it. I think it actually raised a lot of awareness about inequality in the world.

I don’t think even then people saw it as a true representation of the entire continent of Africa! Seeing the news reports just created a swell of fundraising to help those in Ethiopia, the images were heartbreaking and I still remember them well.

For me the song represents a memory of childhood that was about people uniting to help those less fortunate than themselves.

I think the remakes are diabolical!

mummytonicekidz · 27/11/2020 13:12

Quite alot of people on the African continent do not even celebrate Christmas. Especially the nations this song was created for. So to answer the question of the song 'do they know its Christmas time at all?'
Ummmm no they probably don't or if they do they don't care. Lol

Goosefoot · 27/11/2020 13:14

If you bothered to read things properly, I've stated that I think band aid came from a good place but 35 years later we can see that it did both harm and good and therefore maybe it's time to address problems in different ways. Thankfully, it's not up to you and so we are actually doing this, but you carry on thinking life is as simple as spending a couple of quid on a song and that makes everything better.

But things are done differently, in part because groups like Band Aid discovered that things like political corruption could make aid attempts really difficult to manage.

Most of the complaints in this discussion have been fairly idiotic, or historically blinkered.

It is not being a "white saviour" to want to raise money to help starving people in another country, unless you want to take the view that it is simply better not to interfere in such instances. And this was not an instance where you could try and help people help themselves. It's true that since the 80's that kind of help has been seen as more important in aid work, but that really wasn't relevant in that particular crises where people were starving on a daily basis and had no way to do a damn thing about it. You don't tell people near death that you are going to help them grow crops and improve irrigation systems.

As far as the political corruption, it was not anticipated the degree to which it would be a problem, in general - though I do believe some at the political level thought it would - but the fact is they also had no answers. Even today in these acute situations where they try and deliver aid, that is a serious problem and no one yet has found a good way around it. Often the choice seems to be to help and see some or a lot of the aid diverted in harmful ways, or not help at all. So maybe those being critical of the first forays into large scale aid of that kind can be a bit more humble at least until they have an answer themselves.

As far as making "stereotypes" in the lyrics - the fact that there are people here who seriously don't even understand the use of a metaphor in the song title and in some other instances is not helping the discussion look sensible. But even more generally, there seems to be a lack of understanding that just because people spoke about something differently does not mean it was wrong. People did generally understand the song was referring to a particular region if they were old enough to be watching the news, and if they had some knowledge of politics they knew more than that - more than a lot of the posters here have demonstrated. In general you find that when you look back at things like news reports, they are written for people who are aware of current issues - that is also true of things produced now.

But it's also the case that people were far more practically isolated than they are now. Cheap travel had not yet become common. People did not go off and do charity work on gap years. The internet did not exist and what you knew about things came from books, newspapers, and the news. Far away places were much more far away than they are today. So yes, people thought and spoke about them differently. The same was very much the case for people everywhere. Many people who live in places with limited access to information even today think that everyone in the west is well fed and rich. And that's not some sign of moral problems or being stupid, it's just what things look like from far away and there is even some truth in that perspective.

It's perfectly possible to see something is of it's time or place, and not what we'd say now, without it being problematic, or offensive, or anything like that. Not understanding this seems to indicate in itself a really incredibly narrow way of thinking, far beyond what the people who contributed to Band Aid at the time are being accused of.

MyNameIsArthur · 27/11/2020 13:34

Perhaps if the song had been written by a professor in world politics and geography instead of a pop star it might have been more accurate but maybe not so catchy!

Those behind the song in 1984 put it together in a short period of time in quick response to a humanitarian crisis. It stirred up a worldwide effort to provide relief to those hit by the famine. It brought about awareness and generosity by millions and for a moment in time which felt very special it felt like the world had come together to do something good. People cared. There may have been a certain naivity about it and it may have had a limited effect overall but it was a wonderful moment that stirred up a lot of kindness. Many other ongoing things came out of it . So I don't think we can really knock it. The song itself always makes me a bit nostalgic and I like the tune. The lyrics were of its time and maybe someone could rewrite them for today. I don't mind. It still generates income for good causes.

Kissthepastrychef · 27/11/2020 13:39

Yanbu

Along with the rest of the hideous Christmas shitty records apart from Mariah Carey and Chris Rea

TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince · 27/11/2020 13:41

Interesting. I’m a secondary school teacher. The 2 top records kids wants us to put on YouTube are the original Band Aid single and Fairy tale of New York. It never changes.

HeeHawSeeSaw · 27/11/2020 13:45

"thank God it's them instead of you" I always thought this line was quite nasty Hmm

Alexafrost · 27/11/2020 13:57

"The great famine in China was a tragedy not a genocide. Labeling it genocide is ridiculous, Western prism at its finest. Incident of famine in China were sadly regular occurrences up to and until the famine labeled the great famine. Did the government make errors? Absolutely, but 1950s China was a very, very poor country, famines were a constant threat.

If we start labeling every somewhat poor government management/some errors resulting in death genocide - well, then Boris Johnson carried out a genocide in 2020 in the U.K. as did Donald Trump in America."

Mao's policies went far beyond bad management. It's obscene to suggest it was just business as usual for a poor country.

According to Frank Dikötter who wrote 'Mao's Great Famine: The History of China's Most Devastating Catastrophe, 1958–62' government officials, such as Mao and Zhou Enlai increased the food procurement quota from the countryside to pay for imports. He says, "in most cases the party knew very well that it was starving its own people to death." Mao was quoted as saying in 1959 that "when there is not enough to eat people starve to death. It is better to let half of the people die so that the other half can eat their fill."

No, neither Trump nor Johnson are genocidal nor is there strong evidence that their policies made much different to the death rate from a virus. The lockdowns will kill more people in the longterm than Covid but even that cannot be called genocide in the way Mao's actions can.

MackenCheese · 27/11/2020 13:59

Agree with you op. Get rid of that horrible song! I makes me want to walk out of shops....

N0tthe0nlyfruit · 27/11/2020 14:02

Every time I hear "Do they know it's Christmas time at all?" I sing in my head "probably not, because many people who live on the African continent are Muslim"....Grin

MyNameIsArthur · 27/11/2020 14:15

thank God it's them instead of you" I always thought this line was quite nasty

I think the line was there to hit hard. It was saying what probably many people were really thinking (thank goodness that's not me starving and in poverty. Thank goodness I'm over here living in relative comfort, safety, and security having a fun merry time at xmas and not one of them over there living in fear and in pain) . While we are enjoying ourselves at xmas, we are not giving thought to them. While they are suffering, they are not aware or thinking of us having a merry time. They are more concerned with their survival

Buddytheelf85 · 27/11/2020 14:15

It's possible to view things in terms other than black and white, you realise.

Band aid came from a good place but was problematic then in terms of where the money actually went and is problematic now in terms of lumping an incredibly diverse collection of countries together as one pity case.

Yes, I don’t understand why this idea is so difficult. Ditto for the people saying ‘well shall we just erase everything else that’s a bit dated or offensive.’ No, we don’t have to erase the song from history altogether. I’m not sure anyone’s saying that. It’ll still be on Spotify and YouTube. It can still be enjoyed and recognised as an achievement. But it can maybe be sidelined a bit from mainstream British Christmas culture, that’s all. Just by recognising that it has its place in history but its lyrics are a bit problematic in the 21st century, particularly now that our society is much more racially diverse, and maybe we don’t have to play it on a loop in every shop for two months every year and at every work Christmas party.

Alexafrost · 27/11/2020 14:17

"Quite alot of people on the African continent do not even celebrate Christmas. Especially the nations this song was created for. So to answer the question of the song 'do they know its Christmas time at all?'
Ummmm no they probably don't or if they do they don't care. Lol"

The song was written by Geldof and Ure as a direct response to the Ethiopian famine in the 80s. Ethiopia is a majority Christian country so they would know all about Christmas even if not all of them celebrated it.

FishesaPlenty · 27/11/2020 14:19

@mummytonicekidz

Quite alot of people on the African continent do not even celebrate Christmas. Especially the nations this song was created for. So to answer the question of the song 'do they know its Christmas time at all?' Ummmm no they probably don't or if they do they don't care. Lol
The majority of Ethiopians are Christian and they do celebrate Christmas.
Alexafrost · 27/11/2020 14:24

"She was a victim of rape? Where’s the evidence for that, then?"

The Bible. God sent down angel to tell her he was knocking Mary up whether she liked it or not.

midgebabe · 27/11/2020 14:31

I just disagree that it lumped the whole of Africa into one big pity case. At the time the focus was very much on Ethiopia and Eritrea. It could well have been the first time that many in the west actually started seeing Africa as the diverse continent that it is.

I just find it astounding that people today are adding their own interpretation, one that can't help but cast negative light on people who opened up the worlds eyes to what was going on, then saying oh that's not nice,

I find it astounding that people want to forget about the good in their effort see the bad . Because moving the song to history will lead to forgetting.

If that's how people in the future are going to treat people who changed the world for the better in any way, I fear for your future.

CherryPavlova · 27/11/2020 14:32

@Alexafrost

"She was a victim of rape? Where’s the evidence for that, then?"

The Bible. God sent down angel to tell her he was knocking Mary up whether she liked it or not.

More than slightly offensive take on the bible! Significantly ill informed too.

V38 Luke 1 suggests she gave her consent to carry the Christ child and since it was a virgin birth that dismisses the notion of rape.

"Then Mary said, "Here am I, the servant of the Lord; let it be with me according to your word."

ladyvimes · 27/11/2020 14:32

If you know your bible you’ll find she was actually given a choice. The whole point of Mary was that she embraced God’s wishes. She could have said no!

midgebabe · 27/11/2020 14:37

Ffs the bible is not a reliable historical record , written decades after the event, by a bunch of men with an agenda to push. She said yes , it says so In the bible!

FishesaPlenty · 27/11/2020 14:44

@N0tthe0nlyfruit

Every time I hear "Do they know it's Christmas time at all?" I sing in my head "probably not, because many people who live on the African continent are Muslim"....Grin
49% of people in Africa are Christian. 38% of people in the UK identify as Christian.
CherryPavlova · 27/11/2020 14:46

Pretty ill informed to suggest majority of people from Africa (the continent) are not Christian too. Africa accounts for about 45% of the global Christian community.

Getting hung up on religions differences increases risk of sectarian and tribal violence which has been rife in many of the worlds very poorest nations for a long time. The message was simple but clearly misunderstood by some today - it was that we sit stuffing turkey and sprouts in celebration of the birth of Christ whilst across the world people are dying because of famine and conflict; it was sending the message that people should think of them and donate instead of buying yet another chocolate box. It was about the people forced into desperation because the world turned a blind eye, it was suggesting that people opened their eyes and saw the hypocrisy.

Ure accompanied the first lot of aid himself.

By country, many are pre-dominantly Christian.
Congo-Zaire 95.4%
Angola 94.1%
Swaziland 86.9%

Ethiopia as around 60% Christian and Eritrea is around 49%.
Zambia 82.4%
Kenya 79.3%
Malawi 76.8%

Alexafrost · 27/11/2020 14:51

"More than slightly offensive take on the bible! Significantly ill informed too."

Lord Satan give me patience. It was a joke.

Do you think she was in a position to refuse God? Isn't that a case of the mother and father of all power imbalances?

And being a virgin birth in human terms doesn't mean the Holy Spirit didn't have his/her/its wicked way with her. After all God moves in mysterious ways. He probably comes in mysterious ways too.

MyNameIsArthur · 27/11/2020 14:52

CherryPavlova explains it much better than me!

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