Can we now finally get rid of 'Do they know it's Christmas'?

[Tokenminority]

This song drives me absolutely up the wall. It's patronising, reductive, and it completely harms efforts towards equality.

I understand the focus on equal opportunities and stopping police brutality, but other narratives, such as the pictures painted in the 'Do they know it's Christmas' song, can be just as harmful.

'Africa' is not a country. You did not go on holiday to 'Africa', similarly to how you wouldn't have sent that you went on holiday to 'Europe' when you in fact went to France.

Of course there are major problems surrounding poverty on the African continent, just as there are in other places, but African countries are not only filled with begging, malnourished children who have never seen a Christmas present.

The picture attached is a photograph of Lagos. If I went on the street and asked random people on which continent that photo was taken, would anyone even consider the possibility that it may have been Africa?

Actually I didn’t - I asked if people from African countries find it offensive, which is an entirely different thing

What are African people, TELLING YOU they find it offensive, if not African people from African countries?!
Or do you want a certain amount of people put into a graph, the right amount of people answering, the right "type" of African voice, then, only then might you listen?
Actually, don't know why I'm bothering - you clearly didn't want an answer and knew all along.

It seems to a great many people think that it is beyond criticism, it was well intentioned so any issues with it are considered null and void and "woke". That anyone who dares to point out the issues is obviously an uncaring cunt who steals sweets from babies

This
I like the song, and listen to it every year, doesn't mean can't look at issues with it though.

I don’t know why you’re bothering either.

@Alexafrost
The great famine in China was a tragedy not a genocide. Labeling it genocide is ridiculous, Western prism at its finest. Incident of famine in China were sadly regular occurrences up to and until the famine labeled the great famine. Did the government make errors? Absolutely, but 1950s China was a very, very poor country, famines were a constant threat.
If we start labeling every somewhat poor government management/some errors resulting in death genocide - well, then Boris Johnson carried out a genocide in 2020 in the U.K. as did Donald Trump in America.

@Belladonna12

If you bothered to read things properly, I've stated that I think band aid came from a good place but 35 years later we can see that it did both harm and good and therefore maybe it's time to address problems in different ways. Thankfully, it's not up to you and so we are actually doing this, but you carry on thinking life is as simple as spending a couple of quid on a song and that makes everything better.

I don't think the fact you have donated money to animal charities means I lose the bet . It is clear from your attitude that you don't do a lot for other people. If you had bothered to read things properly you would notice that I have never said that everything that came from Live Aid was good. However , that couldn't be predicted at the time and it was the first of huge money raising events. We had never had that before . Do you think that they should have raised money at the time despite the fact that people are starving?

"Clear from my attitude"

And you had the nerve to call people ignorant. I do plenty for humans (again, as stated and that's about 10% of it, not that it's 1) any of your fucking business or 2) has any fucking relevance whatsoever), but then I have the capacity of seperating that from my feelings about band aid from other things. You might want to try it.

Whilst you are airbrushing the world around you, should we also remove from airplay any song with a virgin Mary In it? After all she wasn't virgin, she was a victim of rape and it's insulting to rape victims to say rape is so shameful that we must lie about the child's beginnings

And you had the nerve to call people ignorant. I do plenty for humans (again, as stated and that's about 10% of it, not that it's 1) any of your fucking business or 2) has any fucking relevance whatsoever), but then I have the capacity of seperating that from my feelings about band aid from other things. You might want to try it.

I haven't actually called people ignorant. I think you have though.

@midgebabe

Whilst you are airbrushing the world around you, should we also remove from airplay any song with a virgin Mary In it? After all she wasn't virgin, she was a victim of rape and it's insulting to rape victims to say rape is so shameful that we must lie about the child's beginnings

She was a victim of rape? Where’s the evidence for that, then?

It's not beyond critism btw, although deliberate misinterpretation and literal interpretation is not critisism.

It's shameful that it's core message ..." feed the world " is still not achieved

Imagine if the USA had released a song in 1994 raising funds to save all Europeans from their terrible war and genocide and about how to UN has to keep the peace. You’d wonder what they were singing about and why they thought a whole continent was at war.
This song is the same equivalent, it’s an impressive level of ignorance.

Wow this thread has become rather nasty...

You believe it was a virgin birth? The suggestion is roman soldiers, as rape was very common/ a right.

Think I first picked that up from Mary Beard

Genocide?

It's was about famine and drought and people starving.

@midgebabe

You believe it was a virgin birth? The suggestion is roman soldiers, as rape was very common/ a right.

Think I first picked that up from Mary Beard

When did I say I believed it was a virgin birth? A suggestion isn’t evidence. What evidence did Mary Beard use to back up her suggestion, which you presented as fact.

Do people today really listen to the song and think it's about the whole of Africa?
Wow.

Well let's list the options

Virgin birth...no
Two timing...possibly, unusual for the time when she had a husband lined up
Rape....very common at the time

Anything else? Instead of asking me for evidence, find your own.

@Belladonna12

And you had the nerve to call people ignorant. I do plenty for humans (again, as stated and that's about 10% of it, not that it's 1) any of your fucking business or 2) has any fucking relevance whatsoever), but then I have the capacity of seperating that from my feelings about band aid from other things. You might want to try it.

I haven't actually called people ignorant. I think you have though.

"Incredibly mean spirited and ignorant to slag them off for it."

But who's counting, eh?

The word Virgin also just used to mean a woman not tied to a man....before Christianity just made is shameful to be pregnant out of marriage. 🙄
Absolutely not an immaculate conception, if any.

Ah now, is that calling the person ignorant or their behaviour ignorant ?

@midgebabe

Genocide?

It's was about famine and drought and people starving.

No one is saying the Ethiopian famine was genocide.

If you read the comments in context the discussion regarding genocide is because someone upthread labelled the intentional starvation of 2 million innocent biafrans (including 1 million children) by the British and Nigerian government a famine.

The British government love labelling their systematic killing of ethnic groups to serve British economic interests as famines to order to deflect from the British role in some of the worst atrocities in history (Irish potato famine/genocide another case in point).

I was referring to the post by forwardingoff

I may have misinterpreted it. Such things happen. A lot it seems.

@midgebabe

Well let's list the options

Virgin birth...no
Two timing...possibly, unusual for the time when she had a husband lined up
Rape....very common at the time

Anything else? Instead of asking me for evidence, find your own.

That’s not how debate works unfortunately for you. If you present a possibility as fact, it’s incumbent on you to provide the proof, not ask the person questioning you to provide it.

I think Midge Ure, who wrote that song, said he rattled it off in 5 minutes after a call from Geldof , that it wasn't his best work and he really never imagined it'd be around so long. YABU being a bit disingenuous about the lyrics - I was 12 in 1984 and those pictures of Michael Buerk's reports from the Ethiopian famine are burned into my brain. Nothing was growing. People were dying by the bucketload. That song was directly in response to that particular situation, and it did the job by raising millions.*

Absolutely this. The song has to be viewed in context of the time it was written. Yes it's dated badly and yes viewed through today's lens it smacks of White Saviourism- but that shouldn't detract from the legacy of Band Aid/Live Aid etc. What the achieved in such a short timeframe was historic.

@Belladonna12

Oh do fuck off with this shit that anyone who dares to not consider Geldolf as the savour of Africa is obviously a heartless bastard who sits at home counting their money.

I didn't suggest that he was the saviour of Africa. He did however do a lot to try and save lives. I bet you haven't.

And several said no... Much like anywhere else.

What's that old saying.

"Its better to light a candle than curse the darkness ".
Thats what Geldof et all, and everyone who contributed were doing. It's something to be encouraged and celebrated, especially when the stakes were so so high and the timeframe for action so short.

Wanting to erase it 40 years later, to curse the darkness, for reasons that amount to offence taken, is just so out of proportion.