To ask how women did it?

[TheMurk]

Generations before, how did women do this? Manage children and households 24/7 before all the modern luxuries and distractions we have become so used to?

Having these things withdrawn over the last few months (including activities like baby classes etc) has made me think quite a lot about my grandmother, a woman raising four young children in the late 40s and 50s. My grandfather was a coalman and out all day working. Very traditional roles in that my grandmother was expected to look after everything to with the household and family while my grandfather worked and then did football or the pub when he had free time. He didn’t help her at all and she also had to do everything for him, he even cane home for his breakfast and lunch every day and expected it on the table.

So my grandmother was in the house all with 4 kids, had to do all housework, feeding, shopping, childcare etc. No car, no fancy double Pram’s or scooters to get kids around the streets for shopping, no supermarkets so multiple shops to visit to get the groceries, all cooking needed done, no convenience foods etc etc .

compared to me, I only have 2 kids and all the mod cons etc, plus a DH wfh and helping where he can, but I can barely put a slice of bread in the toaster without the baby screaming because I’ve put them down for 10 seconds, the toddler is (not ideally) occupied by TV but even that barely keeps them going. Toys are played with for minutes and discarded. Too smal for arts and crafts stuff etc.

I am finding it intense, almost unbearable, physically exhausting (not interested in the rights and wrongs of that “you shouldn’t have had kids” etc, I don’t think my grandmother’s generation made much conscious effort to think that deeply about having children, it was just what you did).

I’m interested in the practicalities of it. Did they just let the baby scream and hang of their leg while they made soup?

Did they just turn a blind eye to toddlers jumping off chairs while they did the laundry?

Did they let them roll about fighting and pulling each other’s hair because they were pressing the husbands clothes?

I can’t get any housework done at all, it’s just a constant merry go round of lifting the baby, managing the toddler, feeding them, cleaning up after feeding them, entertaining them, starting all over again.

How did they do it?

And retraining? Yep. That's easy. A couple years working for nothing, then a couple years paid experience, then massive tuition fees if you want to earn anything that actually covers living costs.

I had someone from a poor rural village in India to stay for a coupe of weeks a few years ago as part of an exchange programme. He was horrified by how isolated we are from one another in the West. Although we have so much more materially, he thought we are very impoverished in terms of community, and family support and relationships.

In the past , I echo what others have said. Children were sent out to play all day unless the weather was awful. Older siblings looked after younger ones. Babies were fed and changed but left in a pram outside between feeds. My husband was left in a pram during the day until he was two!!Children did not expect to be entertained and didn’t have toys anyway . They played with each other or learned to entertain themselves. Neighbours looked out for each other’s children. There were extended families living within walking distance. There was a firm divide between parents and children. Whining and complaining was not tolerated. Rudeness wasn’t acceptable. The husband ruled the house and was often feared.
Women married young and men went out to work at fourteen.
Different days. The sheer work it took to clean, cook and keep on top of things must have been a full time job in itself.

My MIL, who gave birth to six children in eight years in the 1950s and 60s, said that she often wept in exhaustion and despair. She didn't want so many children. Contraception was available to married women for much of that time, but she said it wasn't the done thing among people she knew, and anyway her husband wanted lots of children.

So she did it because she had no choice, but it was incredibly hard.

The sheer work it took to clean, cook and keep on top of things must have been a full time job in itself. Well, yes, at various points of history, depending on requirements for cleaning and number of children, it was. That's why we've had sex-separated jobs in the past. It's connected to why slavery and servants existed in the past. I like washing machines and modern contraception. I'm not sure how far India is always a model to aspire to for community relations and family support for women.

I'm not sure how far India is always a model to aspire to for community relations and family support for women.

True. However this particular village was very supportive and community minded. Depends where in India you look .

I hate the current style of parenting : mind taking dc to a play date one day, the beach the next, a picnic the next.

When did this nonsense become the norm? I hate it with a passion.

On “mothering” I wonder if one aspect could be women giving up careers (as opposed to jobs) to have children and then ploughing the same energy and competitiveness into mothering as they did into their work? If you’ve had a senior position in a workplace, with people admiring your efforts and having to show how you’ve spent your time (eg lawyers filling out timesheets), then I guess you might treat your children like clients to a degree. Wanting to impress them, do a good job for them, show others how well you’ve worked and also prove to yourself that you’re “loving your career” and feeling “fulfilled”.

spoketoosoon I absolutely agree with you! When I resigned from work, I definitely poured my energy into my son (and subsequently my DD), firstly because I was bored and was looking for some form of stimulation, and wanted to ensure I was giving them ‘the best’ (whatever that is...!), and secondly, because I felt I had to justify (and be seen to justify) giving up a career to be a SAHM, so I felt like I had to look like I was doing an amazing job (when in reality I was finding it extremely difficult!)

Tip: I'm loving "Can any mother help?" but it's not great on a kindle. I might order the paperback and then I can pass it on to MIL who would enjoy it.

@StCharlotte - you probably know this already but I only found this out recently - you can get a refund for Kindle books. I returned one and bought it as a proper book as it didn't really work on Kindle.

It's interesting reading all of these. In many ways I think we are very lucky, but at the same time, I think we could also learn quite a lot from reconsidering some things that have changed.

I've a slightly larger family than others, four kids of my own and I've also done full time childcare for two others, and pt for some others as well. It does change your perspective on what you need kids to help out with, whether you need to go right to them when they cry, and so on. I was very into attachment parenting with my first, with my youngest not so much. You do realise at a certain point, because it just happens when you are otherwise occupied that babies and small kids are more capable and flexible and learn more than you had realised they could.

The real advantages of lack of cars and neighbourhoods being more self-sufficient and walkable is another thing that we should ask for in community design, and how much work all our belongings create.

The other thing, and this is a difficult one, is that despite all the benefits of women now having options with regard to regular employment in a career, for most families who can't afford hired help the model of one wage earner and then a parent who takes care of the home/kids/community work and may also do more flexible employment (in home care, cleaning etc) has advantages too. Both for the family life, and for the community. And with more people working out of the home it's less isolating for young parents being there. The push to two parent-working FT as the norm wasn't just about women's liberation, it was about things like increasing GDP which is for the benefit of governments more than of families and communities.