To ask how women did it?

[TheMurk]

Generations before, how did women do this? Manage children and households 24/7 before all the modern luxuries and distractions we have become so used to?

Having these things withdrawn over the last few months (including activities like baby classes etc) has made me think quite a lot about my grandmother, a woman raising four young children in the late 40s and 50s. My grandfather was a coalman and out all day working. Very traditional roles in that my grandmother was expected to look after everything to with the household and family while my grandfather worked and then did football or the pub when he had free time. He didn’t help her at all and she also had to do everything for him, he even cane home for his breakfast and lunch every day and expected it on the table.

So my grandmother was in the house all with 4 kids, had to do all housework, feeding, shopping, childcare etc. No car, no fancy double Pram’s or scooters to get kids around the streets for shopping, no supermarkets so multiple shops to visit to get the groceries, all cooking needed done, no convenience foods etc etc .

compared to me, I only have 2 kids and all the mod cons etc, plus a DH wfh and helping where he can, but I can barely put a slice of bread in the toaster without the baby screaming because I’ve put them down for 10 seconds, the toddler is (not ideally) occupied by TV but even that barely keeps them going. Toys are played with for minutes and discarded. Too smal for arts and crafts stuff etc.

I am finding it intense, almost unbearable, physically exhausting (not interested in the rights and wrongs of that “you shouldn’t have had kids” etc, I don’t think my grandmother’s generation made much conscious effort to think that deeply about having children, it was just what you did).

I’m interested in the practicalities of it. Did they just let the baby scream and hang of their leg while they made soup?

Did they just turn a blind eye to toddlers jumping off chairs while they did the laundry?

Did they let them roll about fighting and pulling each other’s hair because they were pressing the husbands clothes?

I can’t get any housework done at all, it’s just a constant merry go round of lifting the baby, managing the toddler, feeding them, cleaning up after feeding them, entertaining them, starting all over again.

How did they do it?

They probably didn't have time to think about how they did it , they just did. There were usually siblings and Cousins to entertain each other. As Kids we played outside, wore ourselves out , had tea then fell into bed!! We were disciplined by other people if we were out of line, nobody dates do that anymore. I think it's actually harder now than it was then, yes it was hard and physical and other issues to cope with. I would never dare say "why have Children if it's hard" I don't have Children, that's my personal choice.

Added to the fact thst there were a lack of domestic appliances, many of the women would have successive pregnancies as well. Some of them would have been pregnant most of their child bearing years.

I remember watching a very powerful documentary filmed in the 60s about the poor mental health of women at that time. It focused on a coal mining village where housing was poor, men worked long hours in the pits and women were expected to bring up the kids and manage the home with very little money and no help. What struck me was how few choices these women had and how little control they had over their lives, as well as just how damned hard it was. I totally agree that children are expected to be the centre of parents lives now, and I have seen more demands on parents to live up to certain standards since my children were born 20 years ago.

This thread has really opened my eyes to the crushing mummy guilt that is a constantv background to my life. I don't do anything for myself when the kids are awake. I feel like i have to be with them all of the time. Trying to entertain them and do worthy things with them. 3yo twins. This is having a massive toll on my mental health. So yesterday i left them to it while i did something i wanted to do. What a revelation!

I don't think I'll be sending them to the shops on their own for a few years yet though!

Neonrainbow well done you. Let them be bored and fend for themselves a bit. I did with my eldest, and now she's in secondary school, her ability to get from A to B, to entertain herself and to self regulate is excellent. Her constantly entertained peers have struggled. One of the best gifts you can give your children is the opportunity for them to develop an inner life, and the creativity and self reliance that goes with it, and the only way that happens is if you leave them to their own devices to a point

My nan had 6 children, one disabled, with my grandad in the merchant navy. So hardly home.

My mum was the oldest and had a lot of childcare duties from a very young age.

She is a very intelligent woman and lost out on her education. I'm sure it was the same for a lot of working class children during those times.

But my mum is a great believer in everything happening for a reason and if she didn't leave school early to get a job, she would have never met our dad and she wouldn't have had us 5 wonderful children 😁

I asked this question once. I think kids were out of the house most of the time or in a playpen. There was less stuff to clear up. Mums got up at six to clean the house before everyone woke up. They worked sixteen hour days sometimes.

BeatrixPottersAlterEgo

The funny thing is, that's what i thought i was doing! They're very independent in doing things like brushing teeth, getting dressed, clearing up after themselves, getting themselves snacks and very good at problem solving - but this thread has shown me that i definitely have a guilt problem. I think it stems from being told over and over again since the moment i found out i was pregnant "enjoy them! They're only young once, it goes so quick!" But that's kind of hard to reconcile with day to day tedium of trying to entertain them all day long. Now i realise i don't have to

I was wondering dame thing yesterday too, i have 2, 6 & 18 months, my mum has 3, my sis has 3, my grannys had 8 and 9. I'm guessing maybe the eldest helped out ???

Perfection wasn't expected and the older children were told to lend a hand with looking after the younger ones - sometimes taking them out in the pram while mum got on with the chores.
Children also didn't expect sole attention from their parents and a certain amount of boredom was normal - 'we had to make our own entertainment' is often quoted.

There was less traffic on the roads so many kids roamed free, out on the street or round the block, to the rec, etc. Kids were sometimes sent out to the corner shop to get a few items of shopping - no big supermarkets then.

As for loads of toys all over the floor - many children simply didn't have the quantity of toys to play with in those days so there'd only be a few things to pick up before dad came home from work.

Expectations were lower. Parents weren't afraid of being unpopular with their children and told the kids off more readily, often with a smack - they were authority figures and didn't expect to be a best pal. Swings and roundabouts - the next generation had different ideas.

Kids went out to play all day. Even younger children were sent out to play, usually with older siblings or neighbour children. Often older children (10/11) would take out babies sometimes siblings or neighbours babies. Children did more for themselves and were allowed to be bored.

People owned less things in general. Less clothing and worn more than once. Bedding wasn’t changed as often. Bathing was done less often so less towels used. Overall less washing to do.

Don't forget that kids were expected to play out all day. I was born in the 70's and it was standard to be shooed out in the morning and told not to come back until tea time.

Typically your mum would come by everyday and you and your sisters /sisters in law would help out as you probably wouldn't have lived further than a couple of streets away.

Not forgetting how important it was to let babies 'strengthen their lungs'. At time when T.B. and bronchitis killed many under 5's babies were put in their pram and left at the bottom of the garden when they cried! So, with no distractions like mobiles/internet/t.v. etc everything was pretty straightforward. Hard work physically but you had help, no distractions and the kids took care of themselves!

Life was simpler and the 'pressure' of stimulating your child and attending groups etc didn't exist. They were happy with a few cans to throw stones at.
Let''s face it, children did what they were told or they got clipped around the ear or worse.
Food was basic so the stress of what to purchase and prepare was eliminated. Shops were close by/ on every shop corner. They grew a lot of their own food.
They got the housework etc done because children either went with them, played outside all day with local children or grandma/auntie etc were always on hand to help out. With a stronger family unit and community, this was the way of life.
We have mod cons, cars and all the rest but socially life is a lot more difficult now - the pressure of it I mean. The human race's mental health is suffering.
Personally from a mental health point of view, I have enjoyed this lockdown time, a lot of my stresses/expectations of me have been eased and I am feeling more connected to my family and to what is actually important/ what we need in life.

@Starlight13 there are few things as stressful as poverty.

US early 60s suburban childhood. I agree that parents then weren't as 'involved' in our day to day play nor were we as 'scheduled up' with 'activities' as children seem to be these days. One may have had music lessons, dance, or a sport but not all three (or more). And I don't remember many occasions where my mum got down on the floor and played dolls or house with me. That's what friends were for! I do remember board games together at times and going to the beach and summer afternoons by the pool with our mum. And Dad playing catch in the evening with my DB.

I also think we were raised to be a bit more able to entertain ourselves. If we'd gone to Mum and said "I'm boorrrreed" she would have found some housework or a chore for us to do, she wouldn't have gotten out paints or crafts. As a result we learnt to entertain ourselves.

And yes I remember being 'shooed' out of the house of a morning to meet up with friends already playing outside, or having friends shooed out to play with me. We pretty much 'roamed' the neighbourhood from yard to yard, landing somewhere for a sandwich around noon or to play inside for awhile before being shooed out again. As a result mums had time alone to do the housework, as they shared the load of watching the neighbourhood kids. And didn't we know they were watching! If there was a 'squabble', soon enough a couple of mums would be out front calling the 'miscreants' home for 'a word'. We were all called in for supper then out again until the street lights came on. I'd say during summer we were probably pretty much 'outside' from around 9 am until 4 pm (unless we were at the pool), then again from around 6 pm until 8.30ish or so. That gave most mums plenty of time to 'get things done'.

God, this is bringing back wonderful memories!

@Devlesko

Not so much consumerism and if you couldn't afford it you went with out. If it was essential and you needed credit, you didn't mention it or you were a failure. Some people want more so work more, some still live the same as they always did. Mums stayed at home it was deemed bad if they "had" to work as it meant the man couldn't provide well enough. There were latch key kids, they came to no harm. Anyone could help out with your kids if you wanted them to, no OTT safeguarding. Kid walked to school and played out, no being ferried to clubs and activities. If you did go somewhere like Scouts, Church groups, youth club type of things, you walked there and back. We lived a lot cheaper so parents didn't need to earn as much, no luxuries like today.

Plenty families have both parents working full time, not because they want luxuries, but because they have to.

Theeighth I do think the notion of what is counted as "luxuries" has changed. Things considered fairly ordinary today would have definitely been considered a luxury back in the 70s. There was less STUFF. Compared to today's standards, how my family lived in the 70s would have been considered "poor" today in terms of living, possessions, lifestyle and clothes etc (or lack of) but back then it was just...."ordinary family".

no one tried to be perfect,

There wasn't the need to be perceived as perfect because they had nowhere to post their parenting successes! How many feel they would be happier if the world of on-line competitive parenting, the Parenting Olympics, didn't exist? I know it's not possible to put the genie back in the bottle but maybe less obsession with social media might make people happier.

I remember watching a very powerful documentary filmed in the 60s about the poor mental health of women at that time.

"Mother's little helper" and "mother's ruin" were bywords of course. Some of this is just forgetfulness. "There wasn't the perceived need to be perfect"? Some of the old communities were incredibly judgemental - you had to have your doorstep scrubbed properly to not be considered a slattern. It makes me a little wary of all the current talk of need for "community" to be honest: although moral standards are not all bad.

I was born mid-60's but I'm thinking my family was very advanced in terms of societal shifts. My mum worked full-time (teacher), we had central heating, 2 cars... I was never allowed out on my own to play even when I was in my teens - "far too dangerous, you'll get mugged/accosted/run over/something terrible"! Weekly shop rather than daily (parents both working).

Life was just different.

People were less consumerist and were happy to work the same job all their life as it put food on the table. There was no safety net of benefits and every penny counted: marriages really were teamwork back then.

Opportunities were few and far between and for the most part people were happy with a simpler, less demanding way of life.

As for kids: parents were stricter, babies were left to scream in their prams at the bottom of the garden and toddlers were out in the garden playing in all weathers until all hours and when they were in the hours they were seen and not heard.

That's not to say everyone was happier. Some women wanted "more" and affairs were rife but people kept to themselves and never discussed their dissatisfaction.

My nan used to put the baby in the garden after feeding burping etc., if they cried they cried, they were safe and secure. The girls and boy were in the garden too, or playing in the street.

I wish that for my dc but with a massive busy street, no chance. No garden also means no baby in a pram, which is a shame as all of mine slept better in the air.

There was loads less mum guilt when it came to entertaining. I was lucky enough to live in a small street, very quiet so played out and often went off to the fields. The dream is to move somewhere similar but no chance of affording while mine are small sadly. Maybe if i get grandkids...

My great auntie (rural Irish farmer’s wife) had 8 children in all.

I have LITERALLY no idea how she did it. NO IDEA.

When I had my son 10 months ago though, she heard I was struggling with BF and said not to worry about BF as all hers were FF. I chuckle to myself even at the thought of her buying an industrial breast pump or hiring a BF consultant (even if such a thing had existed in 1950s Ireland!)

🙃

There wasn’t the luxury of time to fret about such things; if the baby wasn’t feeding successfully at the breast, you sacked it off quick sharp and got back to making the men their fried breakfast before they went out to work!

I also imagine children were regularly left to CIO until they learned to fall asleep; no sitting outside their bedroom door as they screamed, CC or gentle sleep training methods! There just wasn’t the time. They also did have help from their own mothers and mothers in law.

Thanks for starting this thread, op. It has been interesting.

My great nan had children in the 40s and 50s and to be honest I think there would have been social services involvement now.

'Can Any Mother Help Me?' is a brilliant book.