To ask how women did it?

[TheMurk]

Generations before, how did women do this? Manage children and households 24/7 before all the modern luxuries and distractions we have become so used to?

Having these things withdrawn over the last few months (including activities like baby classes etc) has made me think quite a lot about my grandmother, a woman raising four young children in the late 40s and 50s. My grandfather was a coalman and out all day working. Very traditional roles in that my grandmother was expected to look after everything to with the household and family while my grandfather worked and then did football or the pub when he had free time. He didn’t help her at all and she also had to do everything for him, he even cane home for his breakfast and lunch every day and expected it on the table.

So my grandmother was in the house all with 4 kids, had to do all housework, feeding, shopping, childcare etc. No car, no fancy double Pram’s or scooters to get kids around the streets for shopping, no supermarkets so multiple shops to visit to get the groceries, all cooking needed done, no convenience foods etc etc .

compared to me, I only have 2 kids and all the mod cons etc, plus a DH wfh and helping where he can, but I can barely put a slice of bread in the toaster without the baby screaming because I’ve put them down for 10 seconds, the toddler is (not ideally) occupied by TV but even that barely keeps them going. Toys are played with for minutes and discarded. Too smal for arts and crafts stuff etc.

I am finding it intense, almost unbearable, physically exhausting (not interested in the rights and wrongs of that “you shouldn’t have had kids” etc, I don’t think my grandmother’s generation made much conscious effort to think that deeply about having children, it was just what you did).

I’m interested in the practicalities of it. Did they just let the baby scream and hang of their leg while they made soup?

Did they just turn a blind eye to toddlers jumping off chairs while they did the laundry?

Did they let them roll about fighting and pulling each other’s hair because they were pressing the husbands clothes?

I can’t get any housework done at all, it’s just a constant merry go round of lifting the baby, managing the toddler, feeding them, cleaning up after feeding them, entertaining them, starting all over again.

How did they do it?

Now parents can barely afford a small flat on both working full time in professional job roles. In the past families had community and what is considered today as the "luxury" of mother being dedicated to home. I think we see too many images of the "bad old days" in our media. We do not know what we have lost. In the UK it now seems the preserve of relatively recent immigrants or the very wealthy to have more than two children. We are generations deep not growing up sharing, making sacrifices, taking responsibility and also taking reasonable risk

I am an older Mum, so was my Mum and my Grandmother 46 when she had my Mum. I grew up with this routine. Church then Sunday roast. Haslet for supper. Bath night - yes once a week when I was small. Monday morning was wash day and I clearly remember watching from my playpen. cold roast with hot veg when Dad came home. Tuesday is a bit misty apart from shopping, but I do remember being left in the garden in a push chair. Supper was minced cold roast made into shepherds pie, or stew made in a double boiler which could last another couple of days. I can do the whole week but the important part is meals were stretched, housework strictly scheduled . Funny bit about the playpen is that I was given it when I had my daughter. She managed to get her feet under the frame and walk it across the room to find me! A bit more inventive than I was... For me I tried routine, used a baby sling and let the housework slide to "acceptable" and just played with my kids.

I was born in the sixties. I lived in a village in rural Norfolk in a modern house in a close down a lane with a field behind. From a very young age l would play down the lane or in the field with the other children - the older ones in charge. By the time l was ten l would go cycling for miles in the countryside with a friend. This was perfectly normal. We walked to school unsupervised from an early age and by the time l was eight l was catching a bus by myself to the next village for my piano lesson.
Playgroups were just starting in the late sixties and l went to one in the house of the lady who ran the playgroup. I can remember that at the end of the term before I started school we were walked down to the school two by two to look round and then the following term we went on the first day our mothers leaving us at the school gates. They did not go any further.
I think children were expected to be much more responsible for themselves in years gone by. We had strict routines and had to help. As an oldest daughter l certainly had responsibilities in this way. Adults were very much in charge and we did not get away with bad behaviour. The same standards were applied at school, our own homes and other people's homes. Consequences were a promise and not a threat. There was one meal for everyone (this was true for primary school dinners too), no choice. When l started learning the piano at not quite seven years of age l was expected to practise for half an hour every day. Times were different, but routine was king, we knew where we stood and, l think, we were happy because of it.

And yes to having chores as a child in the 60/70. My Ddad needed two white shirts a day and it was my job at 8yo to iron them, setting the table, drying the dishes sweep and hoover, etc.

And one aspect of a traditional setup (miners, RC) was that a good wife did all the house and child work BUT a good man handed over his complete earnings to his wife and got spending money from her.

Totally agree with what has already been said. Babies were generally fed, had their nappy changed, were swaddled and left outdoors in their prams in the fresh air until the next feed was due. Most people also lived in tenaments or terrace housing and had neighbors/family who would watch supervise their children if they needed to get to an appointment etc. Small houses so less to clean, plus much lower standards of cleanliness. Baths once a week. Same clothes worn for a week straight. Older siblings helping with your younger siblings. Kids as young as 2 or 3 made to play outside with other kids with older kids supervising the younger ones. Simple food and simple tastes meant that cooking wasn’t such a chore. Women once married rarely worked and families could survive on one wage. Some of the practices adopted back in the day would be seen as quite neglectful these days.

My grandparents were wonderful people but their standards were so different. A spam or jam sandwich and a cup of tea was an acceptable picnic or teatime meal. Maybe a bit of cake if there was any. They'd never heard of organic/5 a day/sugar is bad for you or any of the parental angst and guilt that goes with it. When we went out for the day with them as older kids this consisted of them transporting us to the location and sending us off to explore while they relaxed. As long as we returned for lunch and at home time and didn't get into mischief they were happy. It never occurred to them to plan a costly and time consuming schedule of entertainment for the day. But they also had a quiet air of authority that meant we didn't play up for them. It was a generation thing, they were the adults and told us what was expected. My mum by contrast was very involved and supervised us constantly, made us eat well, do homework, go to activities that were good for our development etc. I think her parents were a bit about it.

My Mother is Welsh from a very traditional family. She was born in 1932 and was the eldest daughter with an older brother. There were 9 altogether, but 4 died in childhood. The older kids helped with the younger ones. They had a way of wrapping babies and smaller toddlers against themselves with a blanket, so that the child was snuggled securely in so that mums could get on with things. My Mum said that she never had the knack of doing it! One of my Mum’s sisters snuggled my baby in a blanket to show me how it was done and he loved it. Fell asleep almost straight away. I tried it under her instruction and it was comfortable for me, too. I never had the confidence to try it on my own, sadly.
We played outside an awful lot when I was a kid even at a very young age and looked out for each other.

My gran who is in her 80s told me when she was a little girl of about 8-9 if anyone had a baby in the street she call round and say "can I push your baby round and take it for a walk?" they would all let her and some times she would collect more babies along the way in a big pram! Can you imagine now a little neighborhood girl turning up asking to take your baby out and you happily handing them over? 😂

I suspect kids also slept well because they got so much more exercise ~ outside in the fresh air, or made to walk everywhere. Fewer cars, and prams. No double buggies. My grandmother tells a story of when she was out and her toddler sat down in the middle of the main road. She was unable to pick him up as she had a baby in one arm and bags of shopping in the other.

Am I missing something re the poster who was talking about spending hours at the park with 9 yr old ds, and years ago she’d have sent him on his own? I’m in NI so maybe a difference in culture but 9 yr olds going to the park on their own seems like a totally normal thing to me, is this not the done thing?

Read Angela's Ashes. The bits where they run around the town with the youngest baby in the pram (for hours). Most meals were sugar & butter on bread. McCourt is so embarrassed about the state of his education & teeth when he grows up.

In my family history, a lot of the kids died. The older kids all helped out. You read that in the Little House books. They didn't have toys. Somewhere on my SM feed recently was a story about an 8yo girl labouring all day (right now) so she can help pay for her brother's school fees. It's not that unusual in some parts of world, still.

They were also allowed to play out on the streets when young as there werent half the trouble there is nowadays

No, @Fancify, I think this thread is showing that there are huge differences in experience, both now and in the past.

A lot of posts on this thread are assuming grinding poverty was a characteristic of the past and also a thing of the past. It actually still exists, and in the past, it wasn't everyone's life.

I think parents probably do give their children less freedom now than in past generations - we aren't likely to say we left the baby alone in a room with an open fire, because we don't have open fires, but we are also not likely to let our preteens go out all day long on their own.

But a lot of it clearly is personal taste, and some of the posts presuming all mothers post 1980 were incapable of letting their children do chores or take responsibility are a bit irritating.

"can I push your baby round and take it for a walk?"

This was still common in the early to mid 80s. I have memories of doing similar with child who was in the next street. I suspect I only knew the mum through a friend who lived between us.

I couldn't imagine doing that now.

Life wasn't so child centred. My mother never played with her mother. There were eight kids and they ate with their parents once a week. Even when I was young we were pretty much sent out to play until dinner time (I am late 50s and grew up in the suburbs). My parents did their thing and we did our thing, though they were way more inclusive than their own parents. My father's mother worked and put him in a boarding school and he didn't see her for six years!
My friend, who has four siblings, says she cannot recall her mother sitting down with them for dinner hardly ever as she was catering for everyone else. It was a life of drudgery for many women.

Thanks Sarah, this is surprising to me, I knew children weren’t generally allowed to play out as young nowadays but where I live you would be perfectly likely to let preteens go out all day. It must be a regional or area specific thing, but then again we do also still have open fires in a lot of houses so maybe we’re just backwards!

I heard somewhere that we spend more time now on household chores than our great or grand mothers did. They only would wash on wash day for instance and did Spring cleaning when the winter fires weren't needed, all that soot!!

Where I am there are open fires in a lot of houses - when we had our gate post replaced, the guy who did it was really surprised we wouldn't want the wood to burn. When we said we didn't want to risk an open fire with DD he was completely confused.

Then again, I read some posts on this thread describing how children in 'the past' were allowed to cook or go for walks or whatever, and I think those posters must know a very particular section of society, who do very little with their children.

It clearly must be that we all vary a lot, as parents.

My mum grew up in the 50’s. My grandparents were Jewish refugees from Eastern Europe. Certainly I don’t think their life was drudgery. My grandmother didn’t work as it was embarrassing to my grandfather and would suggest he could keep her.

My grandmother always says money was tight and at one point they had lodgers but it seems to me that they were very comfortably middle class. They had Aupairs and a daily help so that my grandmother did minimal heavy housework. She had her hair done weekly and appears to have spent a lot of time having coffee with her friends in department stores where they lower the babies outside in their prams

She said she did go shopping daily but she had most of it delivered to their house. She certainly advocated 4 hour feeding and leaving babies in the garden to cry. My mum remembers then having central heating fitted some time around early 1960’s and all laundry was sent out. They also appeared to travel, to Belgium and Holland mainly and o think my grandma passed a lot of time doing charity work and fundraising and being on committees.

In pre covid-19 times, I have hosted children from the Ukraine and Belarus. They come from very poor rural areas and most of them seem to be brought up by grandparents. We're told that their lives are quite similar to ours about 80-100 years ago. The children will usually have one good outfit and another older one, one pair of shoes and just a few pairs of socks and underpants. They do a range of house hold chores, expect to only wash once a week and have been dumbstruck that my acre garden isn't planted out in vegetables. While I appreciate how difficult it must have been for our grandparents and great grandparents I think the simpler life made it easier.

Regarding kids' freedom, we just don't accept that level of risk any more. I've got a couple of old injuries from being kicked out to roam as a toddler, and I knew kids who were injured on the roads. The trouble certainly was there on the streets, Lou1214.

Love "Can Any Mother Help Me?" Read it many times!!

I think there's a big difference between not having things coz you never had them/they've never been invented, and having things taken away from you as is demonstrated in those reality tv shows where 21st century families have to live as their grandparents would have done.

Also, everyone you knew would be doing the same pretty much. In those programmes the families are mostly isolated.

I did laugh a bit about lack of toys. Middle class sixties child here. Christmas 1 toy shared with my sibling. Particularly fond memories of "haunted house" and "Etchasketch". I forgot to mention my main meal was midday. My mother ate with my father in the evening. She also helped entertain his clients so a lot of time went into her perms and dress fittings etc. Dinner parties where we were banished to our shared room. I don't have any memories of playing with either parent accept for our summer holiday. I did play with my Grandmother. We would make things out of newspaper - fish to be the fishmongers, then name the types of fish, paper dolls, hats, boats etc.She also taught me several different versions of patience.(card game) I adored her. I was also given some old saucepans by a neighbour and loved making mud "food" with leaves for the veg... No I didn't eat it!! As others have said we had utmost respect and a little trepidation for the adults and mainly kept out of their way. Oh and the dolls my grandmother knitted me had furniture made from Kleenex boxes, match boxes and loo rolls that I made myself.

When I tell my mother I don’t know how she managed raising four children with a tiny bit of kids tv available every day and no screen to babysit them, no dishwasher, microwave, tumble dryer etc she always say yes, there was more housework but life was easier in lots of ways and that we have different pressures as others nowadays that she’s glad she avoided.

@spoketoosoon not everyone has a dishwasher and tumble dryer. We chose not to. Its fine. We have hands and sunshine.