To ask how women did it?

[TheMurk]

Generations before, how did women do this? Manage children and households 24/7 before all the modern luxuries and distractions we have become so used to?

Having these things withdrawn over the last few months (including activities like baby classes etc) has made me think quite a lot about my grandmother, a woman raising four young children in the late 40s and 50s. My grandfather was a coalman and out all day working. Very traditional roles in that my grandmother was expected to look after everything to with the household and family while my grandfather worked and then did football or the pub when he had free time. He didn’t help her at all and she also had to do everything for him, he even cane home for his breakfast and lunch every day and expected it on the table.

So my grandmother was in the house all with 4 kids, had to do all housework, feeding, shopping, childcare etc. No car, no fancy double Pram’s or scooters to get kids around the streets for shopping, no supermarkets so multiple shops to visit to get the groceries, all cooking needed done, no convenience foods etc etc .

compared to me, I only have 2 kids and all the mod cons etc, plus a DH wfh and helping where he can, but I can barely put a slice of bread in the toaster without the baby screaming because I’ve put them down for 10 seconds, the toddler is (not ideally) occupied by TV but even that barely keeps them going. Toys are played with for minutes and discarded. Too smal for arts and crafts stuff etc.

I am finding it intense, almost unbearable, physically exhausting (not interested in the rights and wrongs of that “you shouldn’t have had kids” etc, I don’t think my grandmother’s generation made much conscious effort to think that deeply about having children, it was just what you did).

I’m interested in the practicalities of it. Did they just let the baby scream and hang of their leg while they made soup?

Did they just turn a blind eye to toddlers jumping off chairs while they did the laundry?

Did they let them roll about fighting and pulling each other’s hair because they were pressing the husbands clothes?

I can’t get any housework done at all, it’s just a constant merry go round of lifting the baby, managing the toddler, feeding them, cleaning up after feeding them, entertaining them, starting all over again.

How did they do it?

Thank-you @totallyyesno and @SarahAndQuack I am obsessed with the Dressed podcast. Have learned so much history from it and about actual women's lives plus looked at a lot of pretty clothes

DH is now fed up of him telling me some portentious fact and me saying 'Well, we covered that on my FASHION podcast'

@SarahAndQuack

It's mixed, as it has always been (for reference, I've been involved in the development of early years provision in particular on entry to education - by no means a specific expert in child development, but as PM of the initiative, I needed a broad understanding of the issues).

There is a distinct trend for a few things, usually in clusters of norms:

• children raised by grandparents with strict behaviour standards (high behaviour standards, but physically cautious typically - have to be convinced to go on climbing frames!)
• children raised with low personal hygiene and self-care routines (e.g. those kids who arrive at school in nappies)
• children who've not been included in household activities as you describe, and for want of a better word, pandered to
• children with no exposure to environments like the seaside, books etc

Obviously there's reporting bias etc, as teachers (though loathe to admit it), come with their own preconceptions ("Ooh, you can tell a child's been looked after by..." etc). There's no straightforward pattern of exposure to very normal things though for a significant number of reasons. And a huge correlation between children on SEN registers with those on FSM/Pupil Premium. (For example, an obviously safer environment for a child to be let loose to play is their own garden - IF you have one!)

My dad came from a large family. The older kids minded the younger kids. His mum used to get up early in the morning. There was no calming children down, they got smacked or worse.

My husband was born in the early 70s but from the what he says youd think it was the 40s. His dad worked and spent the rest of the time and most of his money at the pub so his mum also worked during school hours. They never saw their dad, they'd be in bed before he got home. They were sent out the house to keep themselves busy all day from a very young age. They'd go anywhere on their bikes without their parents knowing where they were, even on Christmas day. They built a shelter in the local woods for when it was raining and they weren't allowed in. Their parents went on holiday without them but never with them. It doesn't sound all that great tbh, standards were lower then I think and children weren't particularly safe. His parents just say that it was the done thing.
My mum is just a little older and her upbringing was very different but my grandad was a wonderful man who really did loads for her and my nana, they were like parents of today.

I grew up in the 90's and I was pretty much turfed out every day and told not to come back until tea time (5ish) and then kicked out again until the street lamps came on! I flipping loved it. Had so many adventures and made so many friends. My best memories actually. Lovely countryside area though, low crime rate. I live in the same place now and I'm not sure I could allow my boys the same freedom! I'd be so worried! I hope I can though.

I know what you mean OP, my grandmother was the youngest of 12. How did they do it?

My Grandma was the eldest of 6. She did a lot of looking after the younger ones while her mum did the chores. She pretty much cuddled babies and read stories to toddlers from the age of about 4 when her second brother was born. There were always cousins and aunts/uncles (often only a few years older) around to look after children too.

Children's socialising might not have been so organised as it is now with playgroups and nursery, but it happened within families and neighbours. My grandma's family all lived within a few streets of each other so would drop children off at a relatives house before going to the shops, but they took the baby so they had the pram to help carry the shopping in. And they grew most of their own vegetables in the small garden (another job for the older children) so they didn't have to carry them back from the shops, they could just pick them out of the garden and cook then straight away.

My mum was the youngest of 9 children and was brought up in a tiny terrace house with an outside toilet and no running water. I spoke to her about how crowded and uncomfortable it must have been but she remembers a good childhood. Her oldest sister looked after her a lot of the time, as my mum was the baby of the family there were lots of older cousins and aunties who she would visit frequently too. Her older brothers were working away at sea (merchant navy) most of the time so she wouldn't see them much, and they would bring home presents from abroad and money too so it always felt like a celebration when they were home. Her middle sister spent years living in a hospital with spinal problems and they would only go to see her once a month! Her poor sister has had mental health problems ever since. Various older siblings would go and live with other relatives from time to time too so they were rarely all in the house at once.
My mum's oldest brother (20 years older than her) remembers a terrible poverty striken childhood- he wrote a book about it and it's like Angela's Ashes! Incredible how two siblings can have such different experiences.

I was born just after the War, so grew up in the 40s/50s. We mostly played outside. Mothers didn’t have us under her feet all day and we didn’t play inside unless it was raining. Because of the post-war baby boom, each house in our street had at least one child, but mostly two or three, so there was always someone to play out with. If it rained we went back to our respective homes, it was rare to be invited to play in friends’ homes. We had enormous freedom to roam - we would go out with a jam sandwich and a bottle of water for a picknic and we always knew what time to come home for tea, despite not having a watch between us!!

What a great thread. I was born in 1970 and my mum was 24 but she was quite protective in some ways, she wouldn’t take me on public transport while I was a baby in case I picked up a bug or something.

She breastfed me for a few months but she said it really wasn’t encouraged for much longer. She said when she had me in the hospital one of the other women got upset as she wanted to breastfeed but couldn’t. Another woman who had just given birth but was a doctor said to my mum ‘I don’t know what she’s upset about, formula is so good these days.’ I breastfed my own child for around 20 months and mum said she wished she had kept it up longer with us.

She really was a great mum. She had been at grammar school but left at 16 and said all she and her friends wanted to do was get married and have kids. She said that when we were little she would go round to another mum’s and have a cuppa and we children would just play and have a biscuit. Money was tight at times, they made baby food one time by putting cornflakes in a mincer and my dad tried smoking tea when he ran out of money and wanted his pipe.

We certainly played out independently a lot more and a lot earlier than kids today and wandered v far afield.

She was concerned with our education. My brother was struggling a bit and it was my mum who queried whether he could be dyslexic after seeing a documentary. She really strived to get him extra help, paying for a tutor which was not common in our town at the time and then driving him a 60 mile round trip at weekends to a Saturday school at the dyslexia association. He was/is very clever and there was a suggestion that he might benefit from boarding school and could get a scholarship but mum wouldn’t be parted from him.

She didn’t work much when we were little but, after my brother envied some Star Wars toys belonging to a friend with a working mum, she got a lunchtime job at a hotel bar and would cycle there on my bike, I’d be about 10.

My MIL told me when my DC were young "they dont need interaction, they've got toys" and "I dont do playing"
She brought up 4 children in the 1960s so obviously not quite the same generation but they still wouldnt have had a washing machine, dishwasher, car etc.
I think it was very much that kids were left to themselves to play as her role would have been housework, chores and cooking. (She still makes that last all day now, despite having mid cons, and has no hobbies which i think is really sad)
We were laughing the other day about when PIL came over when DC1 was newborn. They were crying in the pram and we said they were only happy if someone was holding them. MIL said what nonsense, we just needed to be firm. She went over to the pram and leant over it and said really sternly "quiet now! That's enough crying," .I was amazed I didnt think it could be that easy but this was a woman who had brought up 4 kids and other GC. .....it made not the slightest bit of difference and our DC carried on screaming until we picked them up! 😂

I'm not sure this is typical tbh.
My parents would be the same age as your grandparents, but Dad got stuck in when he got in, he certainly didn't leave it all to mum.
The lions share was down to her during the day as dad worked and mum was housewife and mother.
She went out at night to do charity work and involvement with women's groups.
Housework wasn't much different to now, if you can't afford/ have the space for lots of devices.
many don't have tumble driers and dishwashers as no space.
Washing was mondays and whilst I can't remember the very old fashioned appliances we had a twin tub that we had to move from one tub to another and everything needed wringing out before going on the line.
I'mearly 50's so not ancient.

Why the 'hmm' face, @Thisismytimetoshine? If you don't like it don't do it.

@AnnaMagnani - I love that! My DD's undoubtedly going to have the same fed up reaction to me always saying 'well, I read such-and-such historical fact in a children's book'. I'm a working historian, and still I find the things I have at my fingertips tend to be things I read in fiction when I was 10.

Sorry, @thecatsthecats, I missed your reply. That's really interesting, even though it must be a worry in your line of work.

And YY, take your point about the way it's easier to let a child take risks if you're wealthier/have a garden. There must also be an element of being less worried about the responses, too, I think? I am 35 and posh-voiced; when I took DD to A&E because she'd stuck a pin through her hand, I wasn't hugely worried anyone would look at me and think I was a terrible, neglectful mother, and I a very aware that is a hugely privileged assumption for me to get to make.

My parents came from very large families where the mums I think had part time or occasional jobs, but I come from a large family (50's era) and my mum worked various jobs most of the time. Probably only had a few months off with each baby. There were no mod cons, but we were all clean and healthy and had a cooked meal every day. I really admire her. Sadly I never told her - I didn't really appreciate just how hard working she was until it was too late.

I remember from about the age of 11/12 in the mid 1970's knocking on neighbours doors that had babies and asking if I could take them out for a walk.The mums were always delighted and the baby (the younger the better in our eyes) was duly packed up in the pram and off we went.I mostly met up with a friend that had also borrowed a baby or had a younger sibling and we went for long walks with our precious little babies.The best pram was a Silver Cross with a good suspension that we could rock the pram when the baby cried .We were always given a bottle just in case.

@schnubbins

I remember from about the age of 11/12 in the mid 1970's knocking on neighbours doors that had babies and asking if I could take them out for a walk.The mums were always delighted and the baby (the younger the better in our eyes) was duly packed up in the pram and off we went.I mostly met up with a friend that had also borrowed a baby or had a younger sibling and we went for long walks with our precious little babies.The best pram was a Silver Cross with a good suspension that we could rock the pram when the baby cried .We were always given a bottle just in case.

God, yes! The number of women handing their newborns over to the neighbourhood kids is stunning to think about now!

I'm 50s..my children 30s to late 20s were probably in the first generation to be 'parented' in the modern style. I took them to toddler, playgroups and swimming. I didn't work until they were teens though. There wasn't the nurseries/preschools locally. There was a Montessori, but too expensive, it was for 'posh kids' who then went to nearby prep school. My husband earned around £100pw. We had FIS to top up. Childminders outweighed what I would have earned. DC went on school bus from reception upwards. DS1 fell asleep on the bus and the bus driver carried him up the lane to our house for me as I had the 2 younger ones to push in the double buggy. My DGM used to ask me why the children had so many clothes and why I did washing when the clothes weren't 'dirty' . She said I made work for myself.
I grew up in the 70s, we went to playgroups then school the term after our 5th birthday. Clothes were washed once a week, DGM did the washing on a Monday morning. They were worn until physically dirty. We had 'best' clothes, 'playclothes' and school uniform. I had one set of small chest of drawers. We were given less freedom/independence than many of the kids round us and 'played out' from about 7 or 8.
DM was born at the end of the war. Babies were put in prams at the end of the garden 'to get air' . Prams were parked outside shops. They did have veg/meat/milk/bread delivery vans going round the villages. DM played around the village with other DC from a young age.

DGF born 1914. He walked 5 miles to school aged 5 with his older brother and sister. He was a butchers boy in the 1930s. He delivered on a bike.
DGM was born in 1914. She and her sister (2 years older) were sent in 1918 by train, to relatives at the other end of the country, as her father couldn't get work after returning from WW1. Can you imagine the uproar at children being put on a train aged 6 and 4 to go on their own 300 miles? When they came home they had 2 more siblings.

Although previous generations worked hard the mothers physically were fitter and slimmer than us. It was physically harder work.

"The idea that men did nothing in those days is not reflected in my family."

My maternal GF (who I only remember post-retirement) did the garden and the washing up. I don't think he was allowed to go into the kitchen and cook, but would have done if asked. He went shopping for my gm when he went into town, but otherwise not involved in domestics at all.

My paternal GF I never saw anywhere near the kitchen and I'd be surprised if he ever washed up or cleaned or anything.

They would be around the 100 year old mark if still alive.

Different for my parents.

My nan had 8 kids and they were expected to play out all day long ("get out from under my feet"). My oldest aunt and uncle did a lot of the childcare.

You expected your life to be hard and miserable. It was the way that it was.

There were few expectations of your child's achievements. You left school and got a job. You didn't need grades and extra curricula success.

Babies were stuck out on the doorstep in their prams! The older children looked after the younger ones and were sent out into the street to play and come back for dinner. Expectations were vastly different.

I don’t know they did it either, plus no tv etc when they did get a chance to relax m, well if they ever did

I supose they would meet up with friends for a chat etc

@MrsTannyFickler it sounds like I had a similar childhood. I was born mid 70s in New Zealand and everyone we knew was the same - out all day on the weekends and holidays, only went home if we got hungry/thirsty and then off out again until dark. DF would sometimes pick me up from school and drive to the pub where he would leave me in the car with a lemonade and bag of nuts while he went in and had a pint. It was normal to have a drink or two and then drive

I changed schools aged 9 and would take 4 buses per day to/from school but I thought nothing of it. Sometimes DF would drop me at school at 7am so he could go off to work early (not necessary though) and the school would be empty even of staff until around 8am. Even in winter when it was dark at 7am and only the caretaker was around. Parents could have taken me to school but I was expected to sort myself out. Same for school packed lunches - I made my own from about age 7 as parents expected me to.

As a baby I was left in the garden in the pram (taken off the base so I was at ground level) and the dog was left to guard me. So different now when it’s said that kids and dogs should never be left unattended.

DM was horrified when DS(5) was a baby that when he woke up he was not changed, fed, burped and back in bed within an hour. She said this was the rule and the baby must go back to sleep or be left to cry because you must not interact with the baby because it should sleep to ensure it’s brain developed

DM went back to work when I was 5 which was a bit unusual then. DF shared the cooking and housework with DM which was also probably a bit unusual but I think DF was quite forward-thinking sometimes.

Like this!!!

As in... they coped like this, not I like this, just to clarify!