To feel emotional at the slave trader statue

[Millicent10]

being pulled down earlier.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52954305

This says so much and the symbolism of throwing it in the river is such a suitable ending. Reminds everyone what happened to so many slaves.

I feel strongly that smashing up statues and throwing them in the river is wrong. It’s public vandalism and mob rule. If we want to get rid of a statue we should decide that democratically and remove it properly.

I'd usually feel the same.
I never condone violence, or vandalism, or mob rule.
I can't read up on the slave trade though, see what it was all about and then think it was OK to have a statue of a prominent slave trader standing proud in the middle of a city in 2020.
From what I've read today, there's been plenty of petitions and controversy over it before.
Has anything been done though?
Seemingly not seeing as it only got removed today.

Should something be done just because someone gets up a petition about it?

Should something be done just because someone gets up a petition about it?

No, but people have clearly protested before.
So not a new thing.
Why should black people have to walk past his statue every day?

It’s for the council to take it down following the normal democratic process.

They had a poll about it a few years ago and 55% voted to keep it. You will never progress from public opinion. Did Cameron poll the nation on gay marriage? No. It’s the same with all sorts of progress especially affecting minorities. Would the majority vote for trans rights? No, so it has to be done without votes.

If enough people sign it and the feeling behind it is clearly strong enough then yes, why shouldn’t it be? The people of Bristol have been trying to get this statue removed for years, but the local government clearly didn’t listen.

When government doesn’t listen and feeling gets strong enough (especially in the context of the current climate where harsh light is being shone on racism), then this is the result.

You’re also working from the standpoint that we live under a direct democracy. We don’t, to prevent tyranny of the majority.

Should something be done just because someone gets up a petition about it?

Would something have been done already if it was a statue of Jeseph Goebbels?

The point that it was still standing is the point.

The dismissive attitude or downsizing of the importance of grievances around black slavery with its legacy of racism is what leads to racist incidents and 'mob rule'.

You don't want mob rule? Then be civilised when it comes to acknowledging black peoples systemic grievences

It's interesting that when people take physical violent action that is denounced as uncivilised.

Is it not uncivilised to dismiss and uphold an endemic system of inequality. Do you think that is not violence?

Why is it the ideology of Karl Marx is seen as being responsible for deaths but strangely racist attitudes are not?

They both lead to the same conclusion no? Unrest. Anarchy...lives lost. They are both a philosophy which if taken to the extreme cause intense suffering.

If you glorify monsters in your society don't be suprised when you inspire mob rule.

Joseph

I really don't see a problem tbh. This statue has been causing debate for years. He was party to direct slavery, kidnap, murder, trafficking.

People are angry, quite rightly so! No one is suffering because a statue that had no business to be there in the first place is now not there!

He may have done some good things with his wealth, but he made money from other people's suffering, it's easy to give away money earned by the work if enslaved people, it's much harder to go out there and earn it yourself.

I'm more shocked than anything at the amount of racist commentators who obviously dont think they are racist but basically start each of their arguments about the protests with I'm not racist but...making excuses for being against black people standing up to racist injustice is racist.
On these threads I've heard excuse after fucking excuse for defending why protests shouldn't happen and it sickens me everything fromThe Coronavirus,The rioting,The looting ,The knocking down of the statues of racist slave traders
The defacing of churchill monument,another prolific racist.
If you are excusing what happened to George and every other black person killed by the police or persecuted because of their colour, heres the news you are racist.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

It being removed is one thing. Being torn down and thrown into a river is another.

The actions undermine the message.

Not the best way to change your world!

They’ve had a couple of hundred years to remove it. I’m not surprised people got a tad impatient!

This thread has shown there are plenty of posters who would not consider themselves to be explicitly racist, but think black people and allies need to sit down, shut up, respect authority and don’t question heritage, or at least not look at it too deeply or critically. It makes them uncomfortable when people do because it undermines the conservative value of ‘everything is quite alright as it is, thank you very much’. God forbid they have to analyze themselves or the culture they live in, and benefit from as a result of their own privilege.

It's because everything they believe they have as a culture was literally make of the backs and blood of all oppressed people's from colonial nations.

You take that away what do you have? A bunch of statues of a decaying past were whites had the power and treated everyone else who wasn't like them as subhuman.

Enjoy as they are removed one by one.

If you want to match these 'great' achievements, you'll have do it again off your own backs, with your own children.

To the people who asked what to do about the buildings that slavers funded, they belong to the slaves that built them and funded them with their lifeblood. Maybe, start there.

Given all the cross over between womens' right and bame rights, it's a shame it attracts racists.

But then that's the middle class demographic. Too wealthy to empathise, not wealthy enough to benefit. Except by indulging in 'wow look what we built'

You built nothing, won nothing, found nothing and discovered nothing without extensive help from other black/brown humans and colonial nations.

I know it's hard to accept and it's scary, but you'll do okay.

I get your point, but some of that is not strictly accurate. We've been around a lot longer than the African slave trade. Some of what we've built was there before that.

I think that anything that is useful that was bought from slave money should be used for community use, and should in someway tell the story of black oppression and slavery.

Also, not to minimize but in the interests of accuracy, the UK has always had other and diverse sources of revenue, some of which were wrong also, but not all British wealth was built off slavery.

Henry VIII wasted much of his father's money and the money he made when he dissolved the monasteries on pointless wars with France. By the end of the Elizabethan era, England was well-off compared to the European nations because during that period it benefited from the trans-atlantic trade (including slaves), wars and looting Spanish ships.

We can debate the historical points but I can't be bothered.

Clearly a bigger change is coming because no-one has the patience to let things continue as there were and I know where I stand.

The fact some people get more upset at a bloody statue being hurt than a black man being murdered says everything really.

The fact some people get more upset at a bloody statue being hurt than a black man being murdered says everything really.

I agree.

Like the other thread about the racist delivery driver this has been like a social gathering for the racists of MN of which there are many.

They were more concerned the "poor man" kept his job and how he " had the right to his opinion" . Then it just became a racist cunts free for all. They weren't even hiding.

They don't like being called racist cunts though, even though everything they say gives them away.

Like all the other threads the racists show themselves. You have to wonder, are their children like that too, their husbands/wives/partners.

I wonder if their friends/ family and colleagues know they are racist twats or do they only save it for an anonymous forum.

They can always change their usernames but they can't change the fact that they're disgusting, loathsome racists.,

It is disgraceful that the statue was still on display in Bristol. Colston profited from the trafficking and murder of human beings - that is not ok.

I haven't read the whole tread, but a good friend of mine was there yesterday and she is extremely happy that the statue was pulled down, because for her it's a reminder that we have celebrated those who participated in slavery.
Really can't understand those who are so angry over a statue when so many people are still dying as a direct result of his slave trade.

They were talking about this statue on tv years ago. Some wanted to change the names of the halls and streets in Bristol that bore his name as well.
Whatever the wrongs or rights I felt sad it was done this way. Nobody had listened before about removing it and they should have done it one day overnight and put into a museum or similar.

People tried for years to get the Colston statue removed, then there was supposed to be a plaque acknowledging the suffering and his part it.
It was always blocked by certain councillors and local supporters. I met one. We had a chat about Bristol's history snd beauty(not the statue). She quite confidently stated that the slave trade wasn't all bad, it was all a long time ago and it helped pay for schools. I said that surely one slave was one too many and she very awkwardly said, oh, er, yes of course. She clearly did not agree.

She is correct in saying that it was a long time ago. So what exactly should we be celebrating about this man, all these years later that he deserves a statue in the centre of the city?

I'm really glad it has gone.

The thing that alarms me about the whole BLM thing on here is whenever someone posts a positive thread calling out racism and racists, there's always a gaggle of posters seeking to undermine the message:

'they shouldn't be protesting because coronavirus'
'white people get killed by cops too'
'tearing down a statue of a slave trader is technically criminal damage'
'George Floyd was a bad man you know'

But surely people should be allowed to temper some of the current emotional responses with facts? For example, one of the organisers of the Hyde Park protest asserted that "she took her life into her own hands everyone that she stepped out of the front door" due to police brutality. That is clearly an emotional and exaggerated statement. The reality is that in the UK you are 25% more likely to die in police custody if you are white than black (BBCs reality check article online), but that institutional racism does exist. I question how helpful it is to allow a largely social media driven campaign that is driven by inaccuracies. It masks the wider issues of police brutality generally, it encourages greater fear and distrust of the police etc and undermines a lot of the work that has been done to increase better relationships/better policing. Yes, I believe that people should show their support for the movement. Yes, I believe that GF was murdered and that the attack very much appeared race driven. But I do feel that unsubstantiated claims about police brutality in the UK can undermine the BLM campaign, as does the violence/criminal damage (albeit by a minority of trouble causers). And I do also believe that there should not be huge gatherings during a pandemic. I have several friends who are BAME drs/consultants working on the front line who are angered by the mass gatherings. My intention in saying these things is not to undermine the BLM movement, but to counterbalance some of the emotional/inaccurate statements being made which create further division and impede better relationships between BAME communities and the police. More importantly, I feel it important that people should be allowed to have conversations and discuss racism more generally in order to get to the heart of the matter/hear viewpoints on either side and get a greater understanding of each other, free of judgement.

Love how you white people think.

Pulling down a statue of a man who was not a slave trader, but invested £500 in a slave trade company over 300yrs ago apparently “helps” fight racism and correct the legacy of slavery affecting black people. It’s a stand for justice and if you think it stupid and pointless, you are a racist.

But these same young white men who pulled down the statue were taking pictures and video with their £1000 iPhones, wearing their £150 Nikes all made by slaves. They’re just as complicit in slavery and slavery trade as this 300yrs dead man ever was. You want to fight injustice and slavery? Then don’t invest your money in companies that use slave labour. That’s actually not a stupid and pointless action because it fights slavery today, it fights racism today, it defunds injustice and funds justice.

And for what it's worth, I am glad that that statute has come down. It didn't belong on a plinth and there had been a democratic campaign to remove it, which had failed.