To feel emotional at the slave trader statue

[Millicent10]

being pulled down earlier.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52954305

This says so much and the symbolism of throwing it in the river is such a suitable ending. Reminds everyone what happened to so many slaves.

@PlanDeRaccordement

Actually, you raise some valid points about modern slavery today. It would, in my view, be great if this campaign fuelled a wider discussion about modern slavery, whilst also achnowledging the continuing legacy of the slave trade upon communities today.

“I do also believe that there should not be huge gatherings during a pandemic. I have several friends who are BAME drs/consultants working on the front line who are angered by the mass gatherings.”

Great point. Who will most likely pay with their lives for this orgy of virtue signalling statue toppling fuelled by white guilt? Why the BAME nurses and doctors that will try and save these idiots from dying of Covid. For people who claim to support black lives, going out and protesting is directly risking those black lives due to a real pandemic.

I don’t care about the statue. It’s just an artefact. Destroying it in a protest during a pandemic helps no black person anywhere, but it does risk the lives of black doctors, nurses, carers. They’re not your lives to gamble with.

I think a lot of posters are wilfully missing the point.

It isnt a question of whether Colston was an okay bloke or not, it is a question of whether it is acceptable to destroy public structures as an act of protest.

I say it isn't.

However I DO think the statue should have been taken down a long time ago.

But these are two separate arguments.

As I said before, I also think the slave trade provokes an emotional reaction not afforded to other atrocities in history, and I'm not quite sure why. There are living survivors of some of these atrocities, yet we focus on events that happened hundreds of years ago.

I think the BLM movement needs to focus on the relationship between the current systematic racism in the world, not a time in history which, while abhorrent, cannot be changed. If we go back in time, we will all be related to slaves in some form, regardless of our colour.

It isnt a question of whether Colston was an okay bloke or not, it is a question of whether it is acceptable to destroy public structures as an act of protest.

No, you’re wilfully missing the point. The question is whether refusing to remove statues celebrating racist mass murders contributes towards a culture of systemic racism and a hostile environment for BAME people.

I believe it’s completely, totally acceptable and fine to destroy objects in circumstances where doing so will not hurt or endanger anyone or endanger anyone’s livelihood.

The present is based on a the past. We ignore history to our peril.

No, you’re wilfully missing the point. The question is whether refusing to remove statues celebrating racist mass murders contributes towards a culture of systemic racism and a hostile environment for BAME people.

Of course it does. I never said it shouldn't be removed.

It is the method of removal I take issue with.

@ChocolatelyAsFuck
“The fact some people get more upset at a bloody statue being hurt than a black man being murdered says everything really.”

Who is this directed at? Can’t we be upset about both? Are we not allowed to be concerned about anything other than a black man being murdered in the USA now without being called “loathsome racists”. Can’t we be concerned about mobs smashing things up and people being murdered?

I know Bristol quite well, and have to say I felt a bit sad to see what looked like an act of vandalism taking place.

I understand the argument for taking down the statue, and if pressed, I would have probably have supported it.

I am also a little torn uncomfortable about placing the values of today onto the people who lived centuries ago. If we were to tear down monuments to people who had abhorrent views by today's standards, thousands of monuments would have to come down.

I also think the slave trade provokes an emotional reaction not afforded to other atrocities in history, and I'm not quite sure why.

Don't you think the systemic racism that pervades and creates an environment where a police officer will murder a man while looking into a camera makes the slave trade still relevant and emotive?

@category12

I can see how the mentality of the slave trade has filtered through history to result in the oppression of black people today.

But there is nobody alive that can take accountability for this. All we can do is focus on changing the present, the here and the now.

And in my opinion, linking every act of racism back to the slave trade does nothing to help with current/future relationships. There is nobody to blame any more, they're long dead, so all it does is create a cloud of anger and resentment that cannot 'go' anywhere.

I believe it’s completely, totally acceptable and fine to destroy objects in circumstances where doing so will not hurt or endanger anyone or endanger anyone’s livelihood.

Wow.

@ChocolatelyAsFuck - you think it’s ok to smash things up “where doing so will not hurt anyone or endanger someone’s livelihood”. Would it be ok if a mob just decides your house car is offensive to them and smashes it up and throws it In the River? Or your house? Clearly a mob smashing up a statute in a public street could have hurt someone anyway.

As I said if we want to remove statutes we should go through a democratic peaceful process and remove them properly. Mobs going round smashing stuff up is clearly wrong

False equivalence again.

It’s trying to change history by removing a symbol of something that was badly wrong. It will not change history. The police allowed criminal damage.

There are more important things such as opening access to jobs, getting better results at school for black people and supporting them throughout their careers never mind eradicating prejudice in other ways. Removing the statue addresses none of this.

And in my opinion, linking every act of racism back to the slave trade does nothing to help with current/future relationships. There is nobody to blame any more, they're long dead

Yet we glorify the acts of slave traders in statuary as if we haven't moved on.

I'm glad this was done and seeing people who object to it in a new and interesting light.

CayrolBaaaskin please don’t twist my words. I clearly said it’s acceptable only if it doesn’t hurt anyone or endanger them financially. Destroying someone’s personal property clearly does hurt that person. Destroying a statue that is not anyone’s personal property does not.

You can “wow” me all you like, I’m not going to cry over some stupid racist chunk of rock, when black people are being murdered and protestors are being painted as violent thugs. Over some stupid rock.

It is the method of removal I take issue with.

But that is the only method of removal available, since the racists in charge have made clear they refuse to take down statues glorifying racist mass murder.

I’m glad it’s down. Can’t believe it’s been allowed to be up for so long....then again. I can believe it.

The question is whether refusing to remove statues celebrating racist mass murders contributes towards a culture of systemic racism and a hostile environment for BAME people

So now it will be fine to go around destroying things because they don't fit in with your beliefs.

It might well be the case that the discussion around the statue had gone on for too long, but it might also have been the case that the current Zeitgeist would have led to the council finally removing it.

I know nothing about Colston (I sang at the Colston Hall once in the 1980s but never thought about the reasons for the name) but assume that the reason for the statue was that he did some good for the city, not that he was "honoured" decades after slavery came to an end for being a slave trader.

Anyway I agree with a lot of people on this thread, the council should have moved its bottom quicker and taken it down (but I think Bristol City Council has a bit of a reputation for not doing anything remotely quickly when years will do) but I don't agree with the protests at this time and I don't agree with taking the law into your own hands.

I'm glad this was done and seeing people who object to it in a new and interesting light.

Will you be taking down details for later?

I dislike the implied assumption, and it reminds me a touch of the Cultural Revolution in China.

As others have pointed out on this thread, there can be all sorts of reasons why people think it is wrong for groups of people to destroy things they don't like, even if they have good justification.

The assumption that if you oppose tearing down statues, you should be viewed in an 'interesting new light' is strange.

Destroying a statute doesn’t eradicate history. We have to acknowledge our history and learn from it. Learning and changing is the important thing.

Churchill set up internment camps and they tortured people. What do we do about that? History can condemn people for their actions but we must move on and learn.

I dislike the implied assumption That maybe you are racist? I can't imagine anyone who sees themselves as a good person would be happy with that label - but I would have my suspicions too.

I am also struck by all the unintended consequences here - a stupid, racist, entitled dog owner takes issue with a black man daring to ask/tell her to get a dog on its lead.

Which leads to a murder by the police, mass protests, looting, and destruction in more than one country. And may lead to many more deaths if people do pass on the virus at the protests.

I really do hope some good comes of it too.