To feel emotional at the slave trader statue

[Millicent10]

being pulled down earlier.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52954305

This says so much and the symbolism of throwing it in the river is such a suitable ending. Reminds everyone what happened to so many slaves.

@iwantmysay
You think bore off is abuse? there's nothing more to be said.

Left leaning that should read.

The worst genocide in history was without question WW2 and its ensuing slaughter

I'm not sure that true. For example Genghis khan killed more.

This aside the fact is we, quite rightly, remember the Holocaust and the world wars every year but millions.of Africans died because of the transatlantic slave trade and millions millions more were enslaved for generations..Sometimes we forget that in the USA the bus boycott was only 60 odd years ago.

If we commemorate a war that ended 75 years ago we should also commemorate Rosa parks, Martin Luther king et.al. and acknowledge that we still have much further to.go

[quote panavia]@Myothercarisalsoshit

Hideous to me, yes. I presume you're left leaving so struggle with the concept that others my differ politically from you?[/quote]
Whatever you think of Marx he wrote some really important studies about the position of the Working Class in relation to capitalism and is regarded as one of the founding fathers of political philosophy.

I presume you're left leaving so struggle with the concept that others my differ politically from you?

What a shock. The person defending the right of the slave trader to have a statue in his honour even if it offends black citizens because ... History is also right wing and thinks all left wingers support Karl Marx

You couldn't make it up.

@LemonadeAndDaisyChains

It seems there’s more emotion over a statue than lives being lost

^This
Pulling down a 150yr old statue is performative virtue signalling. It achieves nothing, means nothing, helps no black person anywhere. All it does is ease white guilt by making their cities free of grating visible reminders of their history in slave trading
@PlanDeRaccordement your comment makes no sense in regards to what you quoted.
Why is it "virtue signalling" to object to and bring down a statue?
Because you (general you) despise what the person stood for (in this case slavery) that makes you virtue signalling if you speak out?
It does achieve something. It educates people oblivious to his name (I include myself in that before today) and I don't speak for black people but how oppressing must that feel to walk by that knowing the context every day of who he was and what he did?

White guilt is an emotion. So yes it makes sense. More emotion over a Bristol statute than over actual black lives lost and endangered.

Secondly, toppling a statue is by definition virtue signalling because it is a conspicuous expression of moral values

And what does educating people on the name of a person who over 300yrs ago bought five £100 shares in a slave trading company achieve exactly? How specifically does it stop police from killing black people? Connect the dots for me.

It seems to be named for the 'Black's Head', which is a pub name that is somewhat common around Britain. it does refer to black people

But is that a bad thing?

I've heard of pubs named Turks Head but not Black's Head. Maybe it was Black Head, which would seem to be more geographical, the top of a dark hill. As in streets named Black Wall and so on

I agree the Black Boy Lanes probably do refer to black people but is it necessarily in an offensive way. Might it just simply be a street where many black people lived, or a black neighbourhood. If it was, then we should keep it. It acknowledges their communities in our history

Black people are in some of our oldest London parish records and their occupations are listed, for example tanner, brewer, inn keeper etc. They worked here, married and were buried here, had their place here. Why get rid of an old street name that reminds us.

It's really depressing seeing this thread with the people making false equivalences, allegedly playing devil's advocate and claiming that this act "erases history" . Such bollocks.

@Myothercarisalsoshit

Ah I see, so because this particular cause is one you believe in it's absolutely fine. I see.

Myothercarisalsoshit

I was writing a long reply but you said it so much more succintly and better than I.

Someone once said that being black is like being the middle child in a family. Not the baby. Not the older who can't be ignored. Overlooked.

Every other culture is allowed to acknowledge their pain, and more importantly define what they perceive as unacceptable symbols of it

Except African Americans, or children of the diaspora. For some unknowable reason that I cannot fathom, slavery is the thing that people truly don't think deserves an equal hearing. One gets the 'so loooooooong ago', but 'black people sold slaves', 'but there were good results of slavery' 'but what good does it do to rehash this etc etc' things they would not say to any other repressed group.

So they have to rise above each time and think of others and "pray away" their pain - which traditionally they have always done from generation to generation. It is why traditionally black people on the whole are largely big on God.

Just accept it doesn't mean the same to you but it means a lot to some of us.

.

[quote Thesispieces]@GinDaddyRedux there is no peacetime. Aren’t you hearing the chants. No justice no peace. That’s the point. Just because the government haven’t sanctioned the action doesn’t mean there isn’t a marginalised demographic that feel at war within in their own homeland.[/quote]
so well said.

Honestly, I cannot believe some of the comments on here. The Government's idea of 'war' are not the only battles worth fighting for. Some people on here care more about bricks and mortar than actual people and their suffering it seems. I don't care how long ago it was, or the fact that slavery was legal then. It was immoral and cruel - what part of that don't people understand? Sometimes we have to take matters into our own hands and do what is right, because the law doesn't always feel right or fair. How else are we going to influence a change in policy or outdated structures? How many other generations do we have to wait for change? In this case, the Council ignored the requests to pull the statue down, now it's gone and good riddance. The people who did it should be rewarded for saving them a job. Without people like those campaigning and protesting, nothing would ever be changed. Women wouldn't have the vote. Think about that.

Black Boy Lane in Tottenham is where people were bought and sold, enslaved. If we're talking about erasing history.

[quote panavia]@Myothercarisalsoshit

Ah I see, so because this particular cause is one you believe in it's absolutely fine. I see.[/quote]
Eh?
Once more for the hard of thinking ...
Pulling down a statue of a slave trader is not the same as desecrating someone's grave.

It should have been taken down in a civilised and safe way long ago, by the government.

@Frozenfan2019

Don't put words in my mouth. I'm not defending the right of a slave trader to have a statue in his honour. I'm condoning criminal damage and thuggish behaviour.

Also, I couldn't care less if people are offended. So fucking what? Some things offend me, I just chose to get on with life.

So, I'll ask again. Why is it acceptable to vandalise something that offends your particular sense morality? Some people are offended by gay marriage, can they vandalise gay institutions or attack gays in the street?

Do you not see how this is a slippery slope?

panavia

@Myothercarisalsoshit

Ah I see, so because this particular cause is one you believe in it's absolutely fine. I see.

Eh?
Once more for the hard of thinking ...
Pulling down a statue of a slave trader is not the same as desecrating someone's grave.

But why not? Give me an actual reason.

Let's just play around then for a moment. If I destroyed a statue of Marx you'd be perfectly happy for me to do that would you?

@CatherineOfAragonsPomegranate

Myothercarisalsoshit

I was writing a long reply but you said it so much more succintly and better than I.

Someone once said that being black is like being the middle child in a family. Not the baby. Not the older who can't be ignored. Overlooked.

Every other culture is allowed to acknowledge their pain, and more importantly define what they perceive as unacceptable symbols of it

Except African Americans, or children of the diaspora. For some unknowable reason that I cannot fathom, slavery is the thing that people truly don't think deserves an equal hearing. One gets the 'so loooooooong ago', but 'black people sold slaves', 'but there were good results of slavery' 'but what good does it do to rehash this etc etc' things they would not say to any other repressed group.

So they have to rise above each time and think of others and "pray away" their pain - which traditionally they have always done from generation to generation. It is why traditionally black people on the whole are largely big on God.

Just accept it doesn't mean the same to you but it means a lot to some of us.

.

Glad to be of service. I agree totally.

panavia
'something that offends your particular sense of morality'.
The fact that that statue was still standing was offensive to millions of people. Edward Colson bought and sold thousands of men, women and children and delivered them to lives of unimaginable torment and death. I would think that that would offend anyones sense of morality wouldn't it?

I couldn't give a shit if you vandalised a statue of Marx or if you shoved it up your arse, @panavia, you strange person. I'm just happy the world is rid of a monument to slavery during a week when people around the globe are rising in unison for civil liberties. The details and supposed anomalies don't bother me because I broadly support the cause. You clearly don't. I have formed my opinion on you accordingly.

Black Boy Lane in Tottenham is where people were bought and sold, enslaved. If we're talking about erasing history

But was this chattel slavery or some kind of hiring place or something else? Because I don't know and I would like to learn more about it.

I'm not trying to downplay slavery in any way, it was horrific, and Britain was very much involved in it, especially the West Indies, but being "bought" can mean a number of things. Hiring fairs, often involving child servants or labourers, were a common events in Britain where people were sold into bonded contracts and indenture

Is there any evidence that these London/UK Black Boy Lanes were chattel slave markets?

Some people are offended by gay marriage, can they vandalise gay institutions or attack gays in the street?

Do you not see how this is a slippery slope?

I'm sorry but what the fuck is wrong with you?
How is pulling down the statue of a man who has been dead for.400 years and is widely acknowledged as being a man who did awful things In any way equivalent to attacking a gay person in the street? Can't you see how you are lessening the issue of slavery by making these ridiculous false comparisons. (In this case you are.also.insulting gay people.by comparing them.to slave owners !)

If you give a toss about black.people and the horrendous history of slave trade which caused millions to die including thousands and thousands of children then let the statue of a fucking rich white tosser go and get some perspective

What the fuck.is wrong with people??!?

@buntysbumberannual

So you're advocating criminality in the form of criminal damage should anyone disagree with a certain viewpoint?

Fantastic. Let's all live in a world ruled by mob justice, that'll work.

@Flaxmeadow

Black Boy Lane in Tottenham is where people were bought and sold, enslaved. If we're talking about erasing history

But was this chattel slavery or some kind of hiring place or something else? Because I don't know and I would like to learn more about it.

I'm not trying to downplay slavery in any way, it was horrific, and Britain was very much involved in it, especially the West Indies, but being "bought" can mean a number of things. Hiring fairs, often involving child servants or labourers, were a common events in Britain where people were sold into bonded contracts and indenture

Is there any evidence that these London/UK Black Boy Lanes were chattel slave markets?

I don’t think child labour or indentured servitude are bright points in history to be celebrated either.

I couldn't give a shit if you vandalised a statue of Marx or if you shoved it up your arse, @panavia, you strange person

This is why we need a "like" button on Mumsnet

@Frozenfan2019

You, like so many others, clearly lack any critical thinking skills.

I'm not comparing gays with slave owners. Anyone with any rational thinking skills would understand that.

My point is that people are offended by all sorts. The answer isn't to resort to criminal behaviour.