To feel emotional at the slave trader statue

[Millicent10]

being pulled down earlier.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52954305

This says so much and the symbolism of throwing it in the river is such a suitable ending. Reminds everyone what happened to so many slaves.

@justanotherneighinparadise

I’ve jist watched the video and it looks to me that young, white men were mainly pulling the ropes that pulled the statue down. So let’s make sure the right demographic of people take the blame for this.

Spot on! The overwhelming majority of the damage is being done is by white people

Wolfgirrl

I am 100% behind the BLM movement

But I'm not sure why every BAME issue is linked back to the slave trade

Firstly I think it's very specifically black history that is linked back to the slave trade names t BAME. I would be very interested to hear about the black people living in europe and the US you feel have no historical links with the slave trade.

People have become politically paralysed by what they think is democracy

Colstons ships sent about 80,000 men, women and children from Africa to the Americans between 1672 and 1689.

Not exactly.

That's the total of the number of people transported by the Royal African Company in that period. He was a shareholder from 1680 to 1692, and vice-governor from 1689 to 1690.

The total capital was £100,000, and I believe he bought 5 £100 shares at around £140 each in 1680, hence 0.5% of the capital (later increased to 16 shares). He became an 'Assistant', in 1681, which made him one of 24 sort of board members, and was Deputy Governor from 1689-1691, which made him the second most-senior figure.

He sold his shareholding to King William III

@panavia

This all boils down to the question of what is acceptable action to take against something you disagree with.

As I said earlier, would all of you advocating this support me smashing up the grave of Karl Marx?

More whataboutery.

Sorry, total capital was actually £111,100

@Myothercarisalsoshit

What a cop out. What is the difference? I disagree with Marx and think his ideology was disgusting. Why can't I destroy his grave?

It seems there’s more emotion over a statue than lives being lost

^This
Pulling down a 150yr old statue is performative virtue signalling. It achieves nothing, means nothing, helps no black person anywhere. All it does is ease white guilt by making their cities free of grating visible reminders of their history in slave trading
@PlanDeRaccordement your comment makes no sense in regards to what you quoted.
Why is it "virtue signalling" to object to and bring down a statue?
Because you (general you) despise what the person stood for (in this case slavery) that makes you virtue signalling if you speak out?
It does achieve something. It educates people oblivious to his name (I include myself in that before today) and I don't speak for black people but how oppressing must that feel to walk by that knowing the context every day of who he was and what he did?

It's just ridiculous. A statue is not someone's grave.

Do you know about Black Boy Hill and White Ladies Road.
The council made up a story about this....but basically it was where the women of a household went up to buy their Black Houseboy.

I'm not sure about changing the name Black Boy Lane. A street name ask found in many towns and cities in the UK. Boys of all colours were contracted into indenture as servants, it doesn't mean they were chattel slaves. Parish records of free black people in London go back to the 16th century. Many with their occupations listed and they do not state slave

Also places were named after the people who lived there. Old Jewry for example. If these are historic places where free people lived, their own neighbourhoods, then shouldn't we acknowledge that.

If Black Boy Lane was some kind of slave market then fair enough maybe it should be changed, but is there any solid evidence that it was

@JudyGemstone

AriettyJones no the MShed is like a whole other place.

One is a music/arts venue and the other a museum.

Thanks. I don’t know how I got that muddled 🤷🏽‍♀️

@category12

That's totally irrelevant.

I hope all those involved face the full force of the law.

justanotherneighinparadise:
“I’ve jist watched the video and it looks to me that young, white men were mainly pulling the ropes that pulled the statue down.“

Exactly. Which is why, to me, pulling this statue down is more about easing white guilt than helping black victims of police brutality or even fighting racism.

“I think a white person can only be a true ally if she works from the desire to dismantle white supremacy instead of merely being fueled by white guilt,” says Katrina L. Rogers, the communications manager of New Orleans’ chapter. From Dear White Friends, Here is How to Support BLM Without Making it About You

[quote panavia]@Myothercarisalsoshit

What a cop out. What is the difference? I disagree with Marx and think his ideology was disgusting. Why can't I destroy his grave?[/quote]
Why would you want to destroy someone's grave panavia? That's a bit creepy.

If Black Boy Lane was some kind of slave market then fair enough maybe it should be changed, but is there any solid evidence that it was

It seems to be named for the 'Black's Head', which is a pub name that is somewhat common around Britain. it does refer to black people.

No, the bringing down of Colstons statue isn't erasing history, it's writing a new one

What a brilliant point. My DS reads the week junior, this weeks headline was dedicated to the BLM.protests. I would not be surprised if next week didn't have the statue incident in it. This event will go down in history and will be studied by young people. I am proud that my children are growing up in an age of enlightenment. I hope that by the time they are adults it would be abhorrent for a statue of a person who caused others suffering and hardship to still be standing.

It's basic humanity isn't.it? Let's not celebrate evil people who caused others' suffering.

I would be very interested to hear about the black people living in europe

I imagine most of the blacks in America were descended from slaves - but in the UK, France and Belgium, they are probably as likely to be here as a result of colonialism in Africa. Not those who came from the Caribbean, they are likely to be descendants of slavery.

@Myothercarisalsoshit

I'm not suggesting I would. However, the grave of Marx had become somewhat of a shrine for believers in a hideous ideology.

So what's the difference?

@Wiltinglillies - The grave of Karl Marx actually has a monument with a sculpture of Marx's head. So on your logic presumably then it's OK to pull down the monument and sculpture so long as the grave isn't damaged???

@frozenfan2019

I would be very interested to hear about the black people living in europe and the US you feel have no historical links with the slave trade.

Well we all are, arent we? Most of us will be related to somebody that owned, traded or was a slave. Including people that appear 'white' that are not aware of their heritage.

The worst genocide in history was without question WW2 and its ensuing slaughter.

But there are many many many other significant genocides, with murders in the hundreds of thousands to millions, that are never mentioned.

Not to mention the half a million Iraqis that died in this century as a result of the Iraq war. Their relatives will still be alive to remember the horror, but it is rarely discussed even 15 years later.

I guess what I'm saying is that certain historical events seem to be focused on far more than others, giving an inaccurate picture that only a small number of ethnic groups have been persecuted.

As I said before, history is done, it's gone. There are real slaves out there now that need help, it would be a far better legacy to liberate them than to tear down a statue.

@panavia not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse but I fucking hate what Thatcher stood for and would destroy a statue of her in a heartbeat if I could but I would never destroy her grave because she was a fellow human being.

Can you really not see the difference?

Why would you want to destroy someone's grave panavia? That's a bit creepy.

They already dug him up once.

[quote panavia]@Myothercarisalsoshit

I'm not suggesting I would. However, the grave of Marx had become somewhat of a shrine for believers in a hideous ideology.

So what's the difference?[/quote]
A hideous ideology? I think you need to read a bit more.

And we all debate a slave trader from 300 years ago, as we eat out of the hands of today's slaves.

https://amp.france24.com/en/20170616-video-reporters-modern-day-slaves-migrants-workers-exploited-fruit-pickers-spain-italy?twitterr_impression=true

@Myothercarisalsoshit

Hideous to me, yes. I presume you're left leaving so struggle with the concept that others my differ politically from you?