To feel depressed as a black mum

[Mamathebest]

I have a lovely two year old boy. On occasion since giving birth I have pondered about his future here in the UK. At the moment with everything going on it just brings it to the forefront. In 8 years time I have to accept that people and those in power will look at him as a potential “thug”, “criminal” and use these as excuses to treat him less than a human. He will be stopped and search many time’s and have to deal with the degradations that come with this. He won’t have the same opportunities or support as his white peers.

At some point I I’ll have to explain to him and teach him to be very fearful of police. And at the same time try to do my best to keep away from drugs/gangs/crime that is rife in economically disadvantaged communities who have little government support. Our black boys are set up for failure. There are no second chances once you make a mistake because there’s barely a chance to begin with. I sometimes wonder if I should just leave the U.K all together really.

I just wanted to get this off my chest and see if other mums out there might feel the same way.

At some point I I’ll have to explain to him and teach him to be very fearful of police

I don't teach my boys to be 'very fearful' of anyone. I tell them to be cautious, use their sense and be wary of police and comply if ever stopped within reason. They have heard stories but i dont tell them to see the police as a threat.

Our black boys are set up for failure

With all respect, this sort of defeatist thinking will not help. They have extra challenges but you absolutely can set up your sons for success.

I think you have to be careful that you don't set them up to expect racism everywhere whilst making them aware of the extra difficulties they may face.

It's a balance, but for me I know my children have a better future here in the UK than they would in many other countries including their cultural country of origin where there are few educational opportunities and crime rate is much higher.

As for knife crime, I can say that is the biggest immediate threat to my children. It is not the police. There are kids round here who have been arrested for stabbing people, in some cases the wrong person and recruitment for drug running is rife.

@LongTallSammie

I’m glad you have not had any difficult experiences as a black woman. This is not the case with most people I know....have you ever stopped to wonder why knife crime is so bad among young black men? What is it about the facets of our society that see so many young black men in prison or dead? Surely you can see that it isn’t a simple case of “appealing to our youth” how in anyway is British society supportive/encouraging or awarding similar opportunities to our young black men in comparison to their white counterparts.

I don’t want this thread to turn into a dialogue about knife crime among black men as this is not what this thread was intended for. Please do not distract from the wider dialogue of racial issues.

White people are killed in police custody too though. About 85% of deaths in police custody are white.

the deaths in police custody of black people in the UK are under 10% it's still twice what it should be in terms of general population.

But a lot of it is to do with where you live. As a pp said.

I hope when the pubs and nightclubs open again we won't see a return to the old levels of white-on-white violence at closing time.

Honestly if you can move to a different country and have a good quality of life I would seriously consider it. I think there are too many barriers and dangers to living in a predominantly white society to young black people. Why deal with all of that if you don't have to?
This is a big amazing world and yes racism is everywhere, but if you would be less worried about the safety and hapiness of your children in a more tolerant society, or a place that is not majority white/western, e.g. Asia or Africa, then if I were you I would be thinking about it.
Even if your dc grow up and are lucky enough not to have any overtly bad experiences, I think growing up 'other' and dealing with societal stereotypes based on your skin colour is bound to have a negative impact on your sense of self?

I don't think the UK is all bad, but it's not the only place in the world and there are amazing countries out there where you may not have to deal with this shit is all I'm saying. I understand though if the tie of jobs, families etc mean that this isnt an option.

Please don’t think this. I bet your boy will grow up to be lovely. I think knife crime depends on where you live and it does happen to white boys too. Lots of white kids doing county lines and grooming gangs targeting the girls. If you google initiatives for black boys loads come up, eg Black boys can. Also there has always been positive discrimination in all the places I have worked which is great. If you are BAME you instantly get an interview and every doctor I have ever seem has been BAME! BAME people are applying to come to this country every day.

@CatherineOfAragonsPomegranate

I’m not in anyway a “defeatist”. I’m illustrating the reality we live in. If anything I said was untrue we wouldn’t have millions all over the world protesting for a fairer and equal society. I will do my utmost best to raise my children well and keep them safe. But there is a limit. I cannot keep them safe from wider society or keep them from facing the reality that is that at some point in their lives they will face racism and prejudice. How is being sad about this “being defeatist”??

@ukgift2016

Thanks for that helpful comment and contribution this thread “love”

With all due respect...can people (especially those of you that are white) stop telling OP how she should feel? She has experienced we will never understand and it's absurd to try and take that away from her.

Regarding knife crime/gangs etc. Have you ever stopped to think about why these are more prevalent with young black men? That's just a symptom of the wider racial issue in society.

@ukgift2016 is that your response to the OP??
Seriously?? Anyone who doesn’t think this happens in the UK is an idiot.

OP- I’m so sorry you have to worry about these things as well as all the million other things you worry about as a mother.
My son is nearly one, and I still check he is breathing every night before I go to bed. I worry about him being bullied, learning to read, making friends, getting into university etc etc and you have all of that PLUS the knowledge that he will have less opportunities, be treated differently and have to live with an establishment which is structured to make his life harder. It’s not right, it never has been and it never will be.
My heart is with you.
All I can do for you is promise to teach my son that he is no better than anyone else by the accident of his being born white, and that it is his responsibility to do the right thing, by everyone, always.

Mamathebeast I disagree. Knife crime has a lot to do with racism. If the government really cared about our children, knife crime would be a national target to address. Again, it points to our black lives not being a concern and it points to again- racism, we are seen "below".

Not only that but if our black lives really mattered, then why are we (our own) killing our black boys? I can guarantee you that a very small monitory of people, at the protest, also include gangs. You cannot be shouting BLM and then be involved in attacking a (usually) innocent black person. It just screams hypocrisy.

The only way we will see a change is bringing about opportunities for our BAME children, have more black people in government, have more black people in every sector job, have more inspiring black role models come into school and speak to our kids, make black history requirement to learn in our national curriculum.

Can you imagine, I've only met one black doctor and I was even shocked? I thought, why is this? It should not be this way?

As well looking into racism, which ties in all what I've said, we need to look at what's actually going on in our own community and being about change, especially and yes I will repeat, black on black crime.

I suggest we ignore the post from @ukgift2016

Frankly there will be ignorant and willfully unaware people in any country. There's no point trying to explain to people who don't want to know.

@Mamathebest I don't know what it's like for you. I'm white but my (now grown) dss are mixed race. You sound a lovely mum. I'm sad for you, your sons and this country

OP, my best an oldest friend is a black man. He's not had an easy life, he was orphaned in his teens, grew up as the only black kid in his year and has suffered racism.

But he also got into Oxford, has a successful career in the City and has married and has a beautiful happy toddler.

Maybe his life would have been easier if he was white, but he has never had his race stop him. He has, on occasion, even felt his race has helped him in some situations.

I can't tell you what your child will face. But I can tell you to believe and trust in them.

Hi op. Whilst I'm not black i am white. İ have experienced some but not all of what you are worried about but because i wear a headscarf. İ have been called all sorts as they think i am foreign. I'm as British as you can get but converted to Islam years ago! But because i have a scarf on they think i am different and lower than them. Ofcourse this is not exactly the same thing you are worried about but I can empathise slightly. With regards to the police. İ do think it depends where you live. E.g in London then 100% i agree with your worries. Living in a village in the southeast it would be a very rare issue. Either way I am sending you a virtual hug because it is a horrid time to be in at the moment and your worried are valid. You are right to make him aware though as we all should be. X

I have a baby DS. I worry about him and his future enough and he is white and privileged. I can't begin to imagine how you must feel but I hear you and I stand with you.

Also my kids are mixed race. But not black And white. However they are not white and luckily have not had any comments on their skin colour but have regarding my clothes. Sadly racism is something i think will not disappear. Or just general nastiness

OP I too can't claim to understand as I am white other so to say, but, yes it's worrisome. There was a tiktok I saw in an article of young black man being taught these rules by his mum. He wasn't being dramatic, just matter of fact, but it made me sob. I also find that, although big cities are melting pots of races, racism seems more prevalent than in small towns. Just my impression. I honestly have no helpful advice, just support I guess.

@buildingbridge

I don’t disagree with you at all. I have supported many initiatives on this topic and spoke about it countless times. Knife crime is something personal to me as I have family members who have falling victim to it over the years. The reason why I I’m hesitant is not because I’m trying to “ignore it” as you see I mentioned the concerns of gang violence in my OP. It is because that on many online forums and discussions it’s being used as some sort of “excuse” to justify racial violence and general racism. There’s been a general theme of “oh look they kill each other so much, how dare they get angry if one is killed by a white person”. Many people are quick to point out knife crime as a symptom of poor morals/values among black communities rather than the general societal structures that play a massive part. I hope that makes sense. I’m not into silencing anyone so if you feel it’s important in this topic then that’s fine.

I’m sorry, I have to say this because it is a feeling that has been building up inside me for a while since this all started. I’m not even entirely sure how to word it but know it will not be popular.

I love the UK and think it is very unfair comparing it to America in terms of racism.

I am sick of people blaming their failures in life on being black in the UK. Friends I grew up with, in the same circumstances as me, blaming racism for why they have never achieved anything on Facebook now.

There is low level discrimination, same as for many groups, in the UK, like the disabled, European, travellers, women. But not even close to the scale in America. I was given a chance here and I grasped it. If everyone was as bad as is said then I would not be where I am today. Those same friends complaining were the same ones getting mixed up in drugs, gangs, crime. They were not forced to and has the same opportunities I did. And they had better parents, mine were abusive.

Some of my friends are turning on other friends because they don’t ‘understand’. My friend who got told this is a woman and disabled and in my opinion faces the same kind of low level discrimination I do in the UK. It is some weird kind of top trumps going on. She was viciously verbally abused for attempting to say something supportive.

And the usual violent thugs are using it for an excuse again too.

I do not believe this is how we end racism, I believe this is how we entrench those views.

Please be hopeful OP.

I have a 3 year old boy who is totally colour blind. He literally doesnt notice the colour of other peoples skin and hopefully he will stay that way.

When I was at school bullying was more common, people's differences were focussed on, rather than identifying our commonalities. I do think there's been a shift. I think today's children in the UK are more tolerant and less prejudiced.

The kind of changes in attitude that are needed sadly may take generations (and that's not good enough, we know) but people are trying. We really do want to be the change you need. Please don't teach your son to be fearful of police. Maybe he might want to join the police himself one day and protect people of every colour.

When I was 5 years old (early 1980's), my teacher told my mother she surprised by my progress because in her experience, black children didn't do well at school. I really wish my mother hadn't relayed that statement back to me. Knowing this at a young age was a burden I didn't want.

I also didn't appreciate my mother to telling me I would have to work 3 times harder to get any acknowledgement in life.

As a mother now, I feel it's more important to teach my children that their behaviour, friendships and attitudes will have a major impact on their lives. I do not want my children to grow up seeing their culture/colour of skin as a millstone around their necks.

Big respect to you @Mamathebest I think you and people like you are the ones helping correct the systemic issues, just by your active presence and thoughtfulness in society. It makes a huge difference.

I feel sometimes that leaving "the environment" (if at all possible) can be the best ever thing for young black boys. I grew up in inner London in my early life and it was predictably a bit mad. I saw people roughed up, stabbed etc, it was normal. I used to think about "areas" and whose faces were known to me. Aged 9. It builds in a kind of integral suspicion and fear of others. For people who wonder why I talk about "snitches" and "the code", there you have it.

A friend of mine who grew up in (notorious part of South London) had it much worse. He lost his cousin to knife crime. He was hugely studious but aged 14, he picked up a knife himself and carried it for protection. If you met him today (top accountant, big firm) you would never ever have thought it of him. He again was a product of the environment. His book smarts helped him make it out but it was touch and go.

For me however the pivotal moment was leaving London for a much more leafy part of the South East when my mother remarried. Overnight I left behind the nonsense and the postcode stuff and went to a decent local comp full of kids being dropped off in Volvos and Discovery 4x4s.

That doesn't mean it was better or paradise, but once I was "out" of it all it gave me more room as a person not to be led by this code of confrontation and conflict with others all the time. Not to obsess with the "opposition" and what people are doing on neighbouring places. Just go to school, come back and play in a garden, make non-area-specific friends that are still mates now I'm in my 40s.

I don't know how or if this helps but I do think cities have this ossification process where young boys (especially those from single parent homes, not that I'm saying yours is) are poured into this world where the code is set by other older boys that have lived the environment.

I will never fully understand how you feel and the challenges you face, but know that so so many of us hear you, will stand with you and will support you

@buildingbridge
Also I agree with the sentiment that we need more black people in higher areas of society. How do we break down these barriers? Many times black people who are well qualified for senior roles will be passed over for someone who’s “face fits”. Not nearly as it used to be of course as things have improved over the years. I myself am a well qualified professional. In my workplace of about 50 people there are only 2 (one being myself!) who are black. We have actually organised some talks and fairs at black events to try and open doors.