"Why have kids if you can't afford them?"

[DianneWhatcock]

Aibu to never forgive this once being said to me ?

My "best friend" since I was a teenager said it to me five years ago and I have never been able to fully move on from it. Because it's given me the unshakeable impression she looks down on me

At the time I was working pt with 3 under 8 inc a baby. Dh working full time in a fairly decent job (more than min wage) plus he had a second job (1/2 evenings a week plus was studying). We were renting and saving to buy. We used to get a small amount of tax credits but we relied on that to make ends meet. we ended up having our tax credits more or less stopped due to an overpayment that would last about a year. I was worried sick at the time as this genuinely really fucked us financially. I told her about it and how worried I was and her response was basically "well why have kids if you can't afford them?" (I should also add she hasn't got kids and lives rent free with her parents - they have a big house)

Nowadays we haven't claimed a penny for years. We own our house (mortgaged) , dh is a high earner I'm working more and we don't even qualify for the very basic child benefit.

However H is furloughed and I guess it's back on my mind. Cos if he ends up redundant we may face having to claim some form of benefits again even temporarily. But the thought terrifies me - I thought I was past that part of my life where I struggled and counted every penny. And I can't stand the thought of being a person that gets judged again (even though I would NEVER judge others that way I am not that kind of person)

I will never ever forget this comment and how shit it made me feel. she never really apologised and I don't know whether to just end the friendship Cos it has just tainted it for ever i think

I know this is a really rambly post so well done anyone who got this far

[Raaaa]

I do agree with the saying 🤷🏼‍♀️ although I don't think I'd say it to anyone in real life especially o someone who is supposed to be my friend

[flirtygirl]

Tax credits were also not introduced as a benefit but for those working. The government choose this way instead of tackling low wages. It was to make work pay as in this country you can work 2 jobs and still not have enough to live a good life on.

It's been years of propaganda that has rebranded tax credits into benefits. And now the changes with UC etc has sealed that.

Op you could afford to have 3 children even when claiming tax credits as you as a family were working to support them. It is not your fault that the government's have failed to tackle wage inequality especially women's wages in roles traditionally done by women.

My mum after her divorce worked 3 and sometimes 4 jobs and still got a little family credit in the 90s as wages have always been crap in certain jobs.

A lot of people on this thread are very ignorant. But I'm coming to expect this from mumsnetters more and more. Sad state of affairs.

[flirtygirl]

leckford
I wouldn’t say that but I would think it. Childfree by choice and I cannot see why people chose to make their lives more miserable and difficult by having a lot of children if they cannot afford them and/or have an unreliable partner like many who post on here.

Because children bring joy and many people cannot imagine not having them. They enrich their life. Obviously opposite to your view but equally valid.

[DamnYankee]

I agree with the sentiment and am reiterating that to my children (15 & 11). I also drag them to the store so they can see how much a grocery bill for four is!
However, I would never say that to someone who already had children. What are you supposed to do, send them back???
How old is she? Why is she still living with her parents?

[FriendlyDog]

Maybe she thought you were hinting at abortion and she was being realistic.

[DianneWhatcock]

@flirtygirl

• Tax credits were also not introduced as a benefit but for those working. The government choose this way instead of tackling low wages. It was to make work pay as in this country you can work 2 jobs and still not have enough to live a good life on.
  
  It's been years of propaganda that has rebranded tax credits into benefits. And now the changes with UC etc has sealed that.*
  
  OMG yy to all this its very true ^^

[Tearingmyhairout0110]

I have had it said to me. I'm a single parent solely reliant on benefits. When we had two children we earnt a combined £60k. Shit and life happened.

[crispysausagerolls]

It’s very telling that you aren’t engaging with any of the posters who disagree with you, or are asking why you planned a third when you were struggling with two.

I fully understand the drive to have one child. There is no “perfect time” - you can always have more money, a better car, a bigger house. But having more than one when you are struggling to make ends meet and on benefits is silly and irresponsible. People seem utterly unwilling to cut their cloth according to their lifestyle. It worked out for you in the end but who is to say it would? Surely it would have been better to wait until in a better financial position before 2 and then 3?

[DianneWhatcock]

@GrumpyHoonMain

I wasn't (and am not) planning more children

[FriendlyDog]

Your priority should have been the 3 children already born. Your dh shouldve had a vasectomy. 3 children is a lot as is.

[LakieLady]

If people only had the children they can afford, the birth rate would be very low indeed. And we need lots of young people to provide the services society will need when we're all too old to work.

People picking on the poor creeps me out. I know I should feel sorry for their ignorance espicially as 95% of the population are only a redundancy from being on benifits, unlike the 5% truely wealthy who get gov handouts left right and center costing society millions

Exactly, no one knows what the future holds. Illness, accident, death etc can tip almost any family into a very precarious financial situation. And then we have tax exile billionaires begging the government to bail out their businesses. Well, they can fuck right off.

[IndecentFeminist]

"It’s very telling that you aren’t engaging with any of the posters who disagree with you, or are asking why you planned a third when you were struggling with two."

Indeed

[DianneWhatcock]

@crispysausagerolls

No one is entitled to a reply and the threads moving quick I've not even read them all

Anyway I'll engage with who I want and actually I have engaged with people who disagree not that I need to explain myself

[Livelovebehappy]

If you don’t want people to judge, then don’t offer the information up. My closest friends don’t know how much I earn, nor do they know our finances. It’s private information. The other side of the coin is that close friends will be pretty much honest and upfront - if I go shopping I regularly take a close friend because if I look fat in something, she will tell me. If the comment from your friend happened 5 years ago then obviously it didn’t matter that much as you would have cut the friendship off at that point, not revisit the matter years later.

[Woodmarsh]

I wouldn't say it out loud to a friend but I agree with the sentiment

[DianneWhatcock]

@Livelovebehappy

That is very true and I tell you what I have learned from this I will not be discussing finances with friends ever again

If I ever end up on benefits again trust me that absolutely no fucker will know but me and the dole office 😂

[tentative3]

If people only had the children they can afford, the birth rate would be very low indeed. And we need lots of young people to provide the services society will need when we're all too old to work.

This is true. I can't disagree at all but I still feel like that's basically saying life is some giant ponzi scheme

[flirtygirl]

I'm definitely going to have this discussion with people who are prospective friends. I'll use it to weed out those who I shouldn't bother be friends with.

So many people who agree with it but wouldn't say it.

[Scarletoharaseyebrows]

Knowing you definitely can't afford child number 2 / 3 / 4 but pro-actively trying to have them anyway is quite different to a change in circumstances once you have kids.

[DianneWhatcock]

Your priority should have been the 3 children already born. Your dh shouldve had a vasectomy. 3 children is a lot as is

"Should have had a Vasectomy" Wow 🤣

Also where are people getting the idea I have more than 3 dc or was planning more at the time I was benefit scum? Perhaps some need to re read the op

[MehMehMeow]

I would be the same as your friend. I firmly believe that you shouldn’t have kids if you can’t fully support them yourself. A former friend of mine (because she used our home as a booty call base With a married man while we were away) has a nursing degree and a three year old. She returned to the U.K. and presented herself as homeless (She wasn’t). After five months, they gave her a council flat. Her parents are paying for IVF as she wants another child, and she doesn’t want to work as she would ‘miss too much of his childhood if she had to work’. She wants three kids eventually and said she’ll space them out, and start working part time when the youngest is 13. I believe that any government assistance should be temporary, time limited and shouldn’t put you in a better position than anyone who works full time.

[DianneWhatcock]

@Scarletoharaseyebrows

Knowing you definitely can't afford child number 2 / 3 / 4 but pro-actively trying to have them anyway is quite different to a change in circumstances once you have kids

Absolutely ☝️

[MarginalGain]

I wouldn't say it to a friend either, but I agree with your friend, I've always considered this a curiously stressful situation to walk into.

I realise most people in this situation say that their circumstances have dramatically changed and they couldn't see it coming.

[SecondStarFromTheRight]

For this to bother you 5 years later I think you must feel there is at least a small element of truth to it, otherwise you'd have moved on.

[DianneWhatcock]

@MehMehMeow

Are you definitely sure your "friend" is real and not from a story in the daily mail?