The English started the slave trade

[Annamaria14]

I just saw a black American woman post online,

"The English started the slave trade. They caused all our problems, they hurt generations of people. I will never set foot in that country".

What do you think? I felt a bit guilty, because the English did cause a lot of problems around the world. Have we learned from our past. How can we do better in the future

However the elephant in the room is that regardless of that, they all ended up speaking English to this day ... which makes it's own statement ...

Did South America, the Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Cuba, and so on just vanish in a puff of smoke?

Britain is for sure in denial about our historical role in the slave trade, and it's good to challenge that, but it would be great if we could avoid acting as if everything south of the US border doesn't exist and isn't still suffering its own issues related to that history (which are in some ways different to the US and in some ways similar, depending on the specific country).

If you feel pride in the Second World War

I don’t ! The fire bombing of Germany towards the end of WW2 was also Genecide

Because all though there are no slaves owned by the Uk anymore...

Modern slavery is a serious and substantial problem in the UK right now, today.

The English did not start the slave trade. The American woman needs to get her facts correct before making public comments. Ancient civilisations including China, Egypt and Rome had slavery and there was slavery in Africa long before the English or any other Europeans went there.

We did indeed profit from the slave trade, but so did everyone from the beginning of recorded history. (the god of the bible condones it)

This business of blaming a country for their past gets a bit crazy. It's one thing making reparations and learning lessons from something your grandparent's generation did, but further than that is meaningless.

The English started the slave trade of Africans to the US, yes.

It's interesting, and gross, that this has been written out of our history entirely.

I'm embarrassed to say I had no idea of our culpability until reading a book by Akala.

The British Empire devoted vast efforts to ending slavery. The Afrikaaners were none too keen when the British Empire moved in and started prosecuting them for murdering blacks, even to the extent of allowing Africans to be witnesses in court cases.

David Livingstone and other mainly Scottish missionaries fought to end the East African slave trade up to Arabia, still going on today in various guises.

In India, the British suppressed widow-burning and some of the excesses of the caste system.

Did a lot of bad and a lot of good.

Proportionately more Irish and Scottish people worked in or for the Empire. If you go to Indian cemeteries from the nineteenth century this is very obvious,

Whether or not the British started it, we benefitted unimaginably from the horrific exploitation, debasement and dehumanisation of people of colour. I don’t blame any person for having no desire to come here because of that legacy.

The English started the slave trade of Africans to the US, yes.

No.

The first slaves in what became the US were in Florida, courtesy of the Spanish.

And England/Britain was more deeply invested in slave trading: about half transatlantic voyages were British before 1807.

Saying that the slave trade is the fault of English people today is like saying a baby born in Germany today is responsible for the Holocaust. It's reductionist and unhelpful. And, as others have pointed out, while England did build an Empire on the back of slavery, so did others before and after.

What we can do is stop looking for someone to blame and start thinking about what we can do to change modern day racism.

How far do you have to go back to feel guilty? I think for me it is if you can personally identify e.g. my husband can go back to his great great great grandmother and the plantation she was on, we could travel to that plantation and see the house where his great great grandfather lived (plantation owner taking full advantage of his female slaves) as a family we bear the name of the family who originally bought his great great great grandmother, he identifies it with her not the man who raped his great great grandmother even though he fathered his great grandfather. We can look at the "stock book" that lists his ancestors. To me that makes it real whereas if a distant ancestor of mine was killed/robbed/raped by a Viking I have no knowledge of it.

@Pumperthepumper

SuckingDieselFella I thought this was obvious but here we go - the point about Jimmy Saville was in response to a PP saying if it’s historical it should be left alone. It’s bullshit.

Also bullshit is the idea that the marbles were available to buy, no matter how much money Elgin spent on them. They’re not ours to keep - and we’ve caused massive damage to them because we didn’t know how to transport them or clean them. But who cares so long as nobody ever feels ancestral guilt?

As I said, you don't do facts.

The marbles were available to buy because someone on site was willing to sell them. If you want to shout about legality, start with that.

Stop saying 'we' and 'ours'. My ancestors at the time were agricultural labourers. Obviously yours must have been landed gentry if you feel that you have personal involvement in this. But the vast majority of citizens at that time weren't trading in Greek artefacts.

And I know you don't do facts but there may be others reading who are interested in them. If the Elgin Marbles hadn't been removed at the time they wouldn't exist for you to score woke points about them on mumsnet. The Ottomans were storing munitions in the Parthenon and they regularly blew up. The site was being looted. Elgin saved the marbles from destruction. If they had been left in situ there would be no artefacts to argue about. And as a previous poster has pointed out to you, traffic pollution in Athens is among the worst in the world. Anything left would have eroded by now.

You are like the Taleban who blew up ancient statues because their ideology was offended by them.

Only a bit guilty OP?

@MilkTrayLimeBarrel

True whether you like it or not. Those in most African countries were living in medieval conditions in the 19th century

You’ve been reported for this racism

And a lot of slaves taken from Africa by Europeans were actually captured and sold by other Africans for whom it was everyday business.

Nearly all the slaves taken from Africa were supplied by other Africans. But demand drove to trade.

Well we sure as hell made generations of money from it

A very tiny proportion did.

But the vast majority of English/British people, even in the early 20th century, had made nothing from it and they owned nothing.

The English didn’t start the slave trade. It has existed for thousands of years. Perhaps she means the trans Atlantic trade which the British (not English as there were Scottish slave traders that financed many nice buildings in Glasgow) and Portuguese started. However African nations took slaves from different tribes long before Europeans arrived on the scene. The Romans and the Egyptians all had slaves.

Of course we can all feel regret for historical atrocities. It is however different, there isn't blanket blame aimed at modern day Germans for what the Nazis did. Yet British, or more specifically English people seem to be still blamed for everything the Empire did. Maybe because German people owned it and the English still refuse to recognise the harm they did. Justifying what was done by saying, "Oh we did good things too." just shows a lack of any regret.

The fact that moving the ElginMarbles back in the day saved them from being in a war that was going on there then does not change the fact that the owners of the Marbles want them back.
Looking after someones stuff does not entitle you to just keep it.

Please stop using English and British interchangeably. People have already explained the Scottish involvement.

A friend of mine married into one of the well known slave trade families. She took the name (synonymous with the slave trade) and wears a huge antique family ring, presumably quite closely linked to the riches earned from the trade. It has actually changed how I feel about her - to me, it would be like wearing nazi looted jewellery. I’d definitely have kept my own name in the circumstances

@Thisisworsethananticpated

Well we sure as hell made generations of money from it

That’s a fact

'We' didn't.

The average person lived in abject poverty and didn't make anything from it.

That's a fact.

What have the UK apologised for over the years? I know that we have apologised for some things

I am trying to find it online