The English started the slave trade

[Annamaria14]

I just saw a black American woman post online,

"The English started the slave trade. They caused all our problems, they hurt generations of people. I will never set foot in that country".

What do you think? I felt a bit guilty, because the English did cause a lot of problems around the world. Have we learned from our past. How can we do better in the future

SuckingDieselFella I thought this was obvious but here we go - the point about Jimmy Saville was in response to a PP saying if it’s historical it should be left alone. It’s bullshit.

Also bullshit is the idea that the marbles were available to buy, no matter how much money Elgin spent on them. They’re not ours to keep - and we’ve caused massive damage to them because we didn’t know how to transport them or clean them. But who cares so long as nobody ever feels ancestral guilt?

African slaves were used in Ancient Greece, there is a long history of slavery in Europe.

I know Germany keeps being used as an example. But, imagine mentioning the Holocaust and Germans’s saying ‘well Jewish people have been persecuted throughout European history! What about the Spanish Inquisition?’ It’s just not comparable.

The slave trade has existed for millennia, before England was even one country.

That doesn’t absolve is of blame, but lay blame evenly across all the communities and nations that were involved.

I don’t mean to be insensitive but stamping out racism and slavery today is a great deal more urgent than something that happened 150 years ago.

First English involvement in the transatlantic slave trade was John Hawkins in the 1560s - but the Spanish and Portuguese had started it with the Eastern Atlantic sugar islands (Tenerife etc) even before Columbus. The Dutch were slave traders in a big way to Brazil and the West Indies before the English challenged them, from the 1650s.

Every maritime Atlantic/northern European nation got involved because there were huge amounts of money to be made from the demand for sugar, coffee, cotton - all crops requiring a lot of labour; the very profitable sale of provisions from Europe and North America back to the West Indies (where islands were colonised by Spanish, Dutch, Danes and French as well as English/British); and the market for weapons and trade in West Africa where there was active selling of slaves.

To get a really good overview of the size of the slave trade, have a look at www.slavevoyages.org/ which lists all known slave trade voyages by ships of many nations. Slavery is a legacy of Europeans / Africans / colonial north and south 'ruling' Americans seeking profit.

For the extent of slave ownership in the 1830s UK as shown in the 'owners' compensation scheme, see www.ucl.ac.uk/lbs/.

The British banned the slave trade from 1807 and were still trying to enforce the ban on other nations in the 1860s.

Actually the portugese started the Atlantic slave trade. Admittedly England did dominate it. But we abolished it years before America did.

This lady who posted that comment won't be stepping foot out of America then, I take it? Because pretty much every country has done something wrong to others. If we hold everyone on the planet responsible for the actions of their ancestors, then we are all scum.

I totally agree with that ladies quote And I am never going to set foot in unwoke places
I am currently hovering over Santa's house

I agree Grasspigeons I think it would be really eye-opening for people

While the British empire was a violent looting machine that enriched a small ruling class it also did ultimatly benifit all UK citizens to some extent, and the fact that other nations were doing similar does not mittigate how morally abhorent it was. I do think reperations are appropriate.
I do however think the new trend for people to be obliged to outdo eachother in public exclimations of abasement over the race they happen to be born as is incredibly cringe worthy, and has some very facistic leanings. Focusing so intently on things you have no controle over is actually a distraction from engaging with a messy world crying out for change and justice in the here and now.

True whether you like it or not. Those in most African countries were living in medieval conditions in the 19th century.

And you think white European life is better than a life black Africans lived? Yes there were many struggles, as with every country but do you think Europeans swanning into Africa and changing things to their standard did any good. How’s that working out in 2020?

Good God.
Saviour complex.

Do I think we should all feel deep shame? Yes. But ALL those who profited should feel shame

I'd be much more interested in how they lived in (say) the 12th century. What's that you say ? You have no idea because it was all wiped out...

Africa has a very interesting history that can be researched by anyone. There were entire empires, with African emperors and empresses, rich in wealth and culture (literature, music, religion) Advanced medicine compared to Europe. Their own nobility and class system. Their own trade routes and treaties. Their own state visits to the Islamic Empire whose caliphs ruled in N. Africa and the Middle East. Even Queen Elizabeth I received African princes and kings to her court.

In 12th C. There were several African empires, ie. Benin, Mali, Zimbabwe, Ethiopia, Zul were all empires covering more territory than they do today.

For all those saying we brought 'civilisation' to these places, you need to look at African history pre colonialism. Also the idea that slavery, murder, looting, stealing, genocide and other such wonderful things carried out by European powers is somehow civilised need a reality check.

The marbles are held in trust by the British Museum. They were lawfully acquired from the local Turkish authorities at the time. Had they not been, they would not now exist.

The vast majority of English (and Scots and Welsh) people never profited from slavery. Quite the reverse because it drove down their wages and starved them of investment that went into Carribbean plantations instead. The English (Anglo-Saxons) were themselves mostly slaves until the 14th century. When do we get our reparations from the French?

Arabs started trading slaves in the 7th century, if not earlier. And this was a proper intercontinental trade with Africa, Arabia and Asia, and later Europe. If you can’t call that a slave trade I don’t know what is...

If she’d said “transatlantic slave trade”, maybe, although almost every source agrees the Portuguese were there earlier, but certainly the first intercontinental slave traders were not Europeans.

Of course the British have a huge history around this, but it’s reductive to say it’s down to one nation.

Our country as we know it has roots in the slave trade and continues to benefit from colonialism.
Much of 3rd world debt & years of conflict in many parts of the world exists because of the way that governments/ powers that would remain favourible to, and continue to promote UK economic well-being, at the detriment to the indigenous population, were installed and sured up by us when countries gained 'freedom'.
Do I fee guilty about it?
Yes, because I benefit from it everyday.

DS who is up on these things told me it was the Egyptians.

The Brits made an empire based on slavery but I'm sure other countries did too. And don't forget that there were African tribal chiefs who were also complicit.

@Jangirl2018 I said "black American" because it is important to point out why she said it. That it was something that had a direct effect on her.

There are a lot of discussions online this week, about racism. I saw this particular lady posting on a discussion on Instagram. And I actually read more about the Slabe trade, because of her

*slave trade

I don't think people should be selective about their Britishness.

If you feel pride in the Second World War, Churchill, the industrial revolution, Magna Carta, Shakespeare, all the glorious things that Britain has done in the past -- you also have to accept the dark side.

Every country has done great and also terrible things. Britain is somewhat unique in that both its positive and negative contributions to world history have been so extreme -- so magnificent on the positive end, and so terrible on the negative end.

So I understand in a way why it's so hard to acknowledge the terrible things. But until this happens more widely, today's injustices are not going to be resolved. It's all connected, this conversation about the slave trade is not irrelevant.

The English were very involved in the transatlantic slave trade. So were many, many other countries, including the Scots, French, Spanish, Dutch and Portuguese. The Americans were too, once they became independent. Also worth noting that some tribes in Africa were active in hunting slaves from other tribes to sell for money and also because they wanted to take over their lands.

Have you ever heard of the Barbary Slave Trade?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_slave_trade

So yes, the English were very involved and that is wrong, but the English weren’t the only ones.

For all those saying we brought 'civilisation' to these places, you need to look at African history pre colonialism. Also the idea that slavery, murder, looting, stealing, genocide and other such wonderful things carried out by European powers is somehow civilised need a reality check.

This. It is dropping in racism and white pride, let alone white privilege.

I'm descended from traveller community I'm not losing any sleep over the slave trade because I can't even trace my family tree because of this 🤷‍♀️ I could literally be from anywhere

In England and Wales, Travellers, by that I mean English and Welsh Romany, are included in the census, parish records, military records, emigration records, criminal records, newspaper records and specifically in licence to hawk and sell goods records. They are in the records just as everyone else, of any background, is

Well we sure as hell made generations of money from it

That’s a fact

Those in most African countries were living in medieval conditions in the 19th century.

There are still people around the world, particularly traditional tribes, today quite happily living in ‘medieval conditions’ or even pre-medieval. Do you think they need ‘helping’ in the same kind of way? Or would that obviously not be acceptable nowadays?

'I’m not even fully German. But despite all that of course I still feel a sense of guilt and regret about things that have happened as a result of my country’s actions. It’s not an admission of wrong doing for something you haven’t done,'

Of course we can all feel regret for historical atrocities. It is however different, there isn't blanket blame aimed at modern day Germans for what the Nazis did. Yet British, or more specifically English people seem to be still blamed for everything the Empire did.