The English started the slave trade

[Annamaria14]

I just saw a black American woman post online,

"The English started the slave trade. They caused all our problems, they hurt generations of people. I will never set foot in that country".

What do you think? I felt a bit guilty, because the English did cause a lot of problems around the world. Have we learned from our past. How can we do better in the future

"As I have said, I was a big world traveler. In many, many countries people sat me down and told me the total devastation that the English caused to their country."

I'm intrigued by this comment of yours @Annamaria14. How did these 'sitting you downs' come about? What sort of conversations were you engaging in to get onto this subject? Who were the people sitting you down? What countries?

There seem to be a lot of people well educated in this so can I ask a question? I know slavery has a very very long history but was the transatlantic slave trade one of the first times slaves/slavers were divided down really different racial lines? I know some ethnic groups/religions were considered more inferior within a country and were therefore enslaved, but I feel like earlier slavery must have been between more ethnically similar groups.
Is the fact that increased global travel allowed more separated ethnicities to interact important? My guess is that this allowed the transatlantic slave trade to tack racism into its process to justify it and increase profits. When slavery took place within a smaller geographical area I doubt the slavers could base its foundation on the fact the slaves were a different race/colour as they were more likely to be similar races/colours. Or am I being a bit dim.

The Queen apologised to the Irish on a state visit. Quite right too.

@MilkTrayLimeBarrel

Doesn't anyone concede that the British brought civilisation to many of these countries and started their journey to modern life?

You’ve also been reported for this repugnant racism.

Saying that the slave trade is the fault of English people today is like saying a baby born in Germany today is responsible for the Holocaust.

The approach taken in Germany today is not to say that that baby is responsible for the Holocaust. But, what they say is that Germans today live in a country that once perpetrated a monstrous atrocity, and they have the responsibility to learn about that and actively work against racism today.

Is that so difficult to do? Why not do the same in the UK? It is not about blame, it is about making people understand that today's problems are linked to historic atrocities and injustice.

There is a reason that black Americans are currently focusing so much attention on the historic roots of police brutality, because to really make change happen you need to understand the deep historic depths of racism and imperialism.

The slave trade in Africa was long established before any European involvement.

'Regret' is meaningless when its something someone else has done and there is no way on earth to affect or change any of it. Anyone here talking about how people should feel personal guilt or regret is talking obvious nonesense.

It is interesting that the conquistadors and the entire Spanish/Portuguese Empire have been edited out of this bizarrely lopsided history.

The impact of the transatlantic slave trade is obviously still affecting life across the generations up to now.

Britain played such a big part in it, I think on behalf of Britain, Boris Johnson should have publicly condemned the murder of George Floyd and the appalling lack of democracy re: his murderer initially merely getting the sack, state-sanctioned murder etc. He could have spoken out, but he didn't; I suppose he didn't want to mess up his chlorinated chicken deals.

@WhereYouLeftIt a lot of the shorter conversations were from me going into a shop in a country that I was in. The shop owner asking me where I was from, me saying "the U.K" and the shop owner saying "I hate the English because they did x,y,z"

Which wasn't nice for me, I have to say.

@Chiochan

The fact that moving the ElginMarbles back in the day saved them from being in a war that was going on there then does not change the fact that the owners of the Marbles want them back. Looking after someones stuff does not entitle you to just keep it.

No, but buying the stuff does.

When that stuff is then bought off you by the British Government and donated to the British Museum on condition that it is available for the public to view, ownership actually rests with the British public.

Technically the owners at the time were the Ottomans. I wasn't aware that any representative of the Ottoman empire were still around but obviously you know different.

And moving them is central to the discussion. If they hadn't been moved they would no longer exist and you couldn't score points about them on mumsnet!

Stop saying 'we' and 'ours'. My ancestors at the time were agricultural labourers. Obviously yours must have been landed gentry if you feel that you have personal involvement in this. But the vast majority of citizens at that time weren't trading in Greek artefacts

@SuckingDieselFella

. Great post.

And I know you don't do facts but there may be others reading who are interested in them. If the Elgin Marbles hadn't been removed at the time they wouldn't exist for you to score woke points about them on mumsnet. The Ottomans were storing munitions in the Parthenon and they regularly blew up. The site was being looted. Elgin saved the marbles from destruction. If they had been left in situ there would be no artefacts to argue about. And as a previous poster has pointed out to you, traffic pollution in Athens is among the worst in the world. Anything left would have eroded by now.

Those pesky foreigners can’t even look after their own stuff! Thank god for the looting British - who damaged them beyond repair after they stole them, of course, but who cares about that? So long as it was us who did it and not the people they actually belonged to.

Jangirl2018 your childish attempts at bullying are creeping me out.

The British did not "bring civilization" anywhere. We took our own civilization, and partly wiped out the civilizations that were already there and overwrote them with our own. This is not something to be proud of.

It’s not really about an opinion. It’s factually correct

Bullshit. Africans, the Ancient Egyptians, and the Ancient Greeks started it.

England was the first country to stop slavery.

Not when you buy it from someone who isnot the owner.

@Flaxmeadow

I'm descended from traveller community I'm not losing any sleep over the slave trade because I can't even trace my family tree because of this 🤷‍♀️ I could literally be from anywhere

In England and Wales, Travellers, by that I mean English and Welsh Romany, are included in the census, parish records, military records, emigration records, criminal records, newspaper records and specifically in licence to hawk and sell goods records. They are in the records just as everyone else, of any background, is

My family were off the grid they were on barges and in fields they didnt legally get married like I said there is literally no trace until my grandad was born they presented as a married couple all searches show they were not cant even find there birth certificate either my moms family history traces back to scotland we came here for work so 🤷‍♀️

@IDefinitelyHaveFriends and @dreamingbohemian This 100% and you have managed to convey your points much more eloquently than I could as I’m a bit emotional at the moment reading some of these threads/replies.

The Arabs trading in African slave was thriving years before the Europeans got involved and only ended in the 1930s.

The kicker on this thread is the comment that states the British brought civilisation to Africa and we lived in medieval conditions before the British came along to save us as if we had no palaces, no structural buildings of any type. We had all these things but were plundered and torn down and you really have to do some digging to find this information out as it wasn’t in the Europeans/Arabs interest to write a narrative that put Africans in a positive light.

Yes there were villages with people that lived in mud huts, but who were we hurting? who said we needed saving.

Because all though there are no slaves owned by the Uk anymore...

There's an estimated 13,000 people currently enslaved in the UK and around 40million people world wide, over 3 times more people than at the height of the Atlantic slave trade. But please lets just ignore this and concentrate on something that happened hundreds of years ago.

I felt a bit guilty about it today, which is a good thing as when we are upaet about the past, we can move to a better future.

Why would you need guilt or shame or anything else about something you had no part in, to make sure you are a good person in the future?

Handwringing about what part the nation you happen to live in now, did something really bad in the past is pointless. Be more concerned about what your country is doing now.

I don’t think it’s fair to blame the English for the slave trade any more than it’s fair to hate Germans for nazism.

However it is important to recognise the continuing legacy of slavery and seek ways to use the privilege the Britain continues to enjoy as a result of its past to help the countries and people that continue to be disadvantaged as a result of that past.

Sure, England did start a slave trade (even if it did not invent slavery or the trans Atlantic slave trade) and it also ended one (and helped end others through political influence). It’s not about who started what because all those people are long dead. It’s about the injustice that we allow to exist in the world today and the people that actively perpetuate it.

@Abraid2

The Queen apologised to the Irish on a state visit. Quite right too.

Have the Irish government apologised for refusing to extradite republican terrorists or for the funding these terrorists received from Irish citizens? Or for the atrocities committed in the name of 'Ireland'?

Many victims of terrorism and their families would appreciate an apology, I'm sure.

@Chiochan

Jangirl2018 your childish attempts at bullying are creeping me out

I honestly couldn’t give a fuck. If you think calling out racism is ‘childish’ and ‘bullying’ then perhaps you need to be reported to.

What is distant? Would it be ok for a German person to say that in relation to the Holocaust in a 100 years time?

Yes. I am Jewish and I don't blame modern Germans for what their ancestors did. My best friend is German and they are some of my favourite people. I would be even less inclined to blame German people in 100 years time.