The English started the slave trade

[Annamaria14]

I just saw a black American woman post online,

"The English started the slave trade. They caused all our problems, they hurt generations of people. I will never set foot in that country".

What do you think? I felt a bit guilty, because the English did cause a lot of problems around the world. Have we learned from our past. How can we do better in the future

I haven't stolen anything and put it in a museum. In Europe most people's ancestors were agricultural labourers. Why should their descendants be denied the chance to visit museums for the sake of political correctness?

So following the logic of ‘its in the past and nothing to do with me’ we should have left Alan Turing’s legacy untouched? Jimmy Saville should still be Sir Jimmy? The statues of confederate soldiers should be left standing?

You can still visit museums if we give the Elgin Marbles back - in fact it’ll probably be a much nicer visit because you won’t have to explain the British history of theft to your children.

No compensation for the slaves, just the owners.

Of course. Why on earth would it have been any other way ? England has always valued property and money above life.

The slave trade could have been abolished much sooner, had the abolitionists been prepared to pay more.

She conveniently ignored all the slaves beforehand.

Slavery isn't right/was'nt right whether it was in ancient Egyptian times or later. The British and other Europeon countries did benefit from slavery but so did the American's who continued it after the war of independence... notice they didn't end slavery when they became an independent country. I do believe that it was ended in 'England' before it was ended in America.

The Southern Irish coast was raided for slaves too...

The whole coastal region of Europe was

they were known by the black slaves as "redlegs" because of how their skin burned in the West Indian sun

The most famous case of a slave raid on Ireland was on a settlement of English people living in Ireland.

But the Barbary slave trade was not really involved in this. The Barbary raids took European slaves into Africa, the Ottoman empire and the middle east

The white "slaves" in the West Indies, and in the colonies on the north American eastern seaboard, were mostly English convicts who had been transported there by English courts.

But I'm wary of the use of the term "white slaves" in that instance. Because in America there are a lot of myths about "white slavery". Mostly put forward by American right wing propagandists

I think this feeling of ‘guilt’ and ‘responsibility’ is a fairly new thing in the UK and so many are unfamiliar with it because we’ve been raised with a very sugar coated and skewed version of history, especially when it comes to the British Empire. I’m half German, so to me feeling this form of guilt - which is not a normal type of guilt - is not new. Germans are raised to understand the past and feel that sense of regret for what was done wrong. Some people on here saying ‘I wasn’t there’ or ‘my direct ancestors did not do this...’ that’s not how it works. My great-grandfather opposed the nazis, and received warnings for it. My great-uncles were barely teenagers when they had to fight at the end of the war, my grandmother was a child and nearly starved - you could say they were victims themselves. I’m not even fully German. But despite all that of course I still feel a sense of guilt and regret about things that have happened as a result of my country’s actions. It’s not an admission of wrong doing for something you haven’t done, it’s about being honest and connected to your country’s history, rather than removed from it. I think in the UK particularly we like to connect with the positive stories of our past - we’re more than happy to feel pride on behalf of those who came before us. But how can you say you feel pride for something you haven’t done or weren’t there for, but then feeling guilt is so impossible? A shift from that is obviously going to be very uncomfortable and unfamiliar to many.

And if we're going to beat ourselves up about the slave trade what about what we did in India? How about Ireland? What about us exporting tons of food out of the country while a million people died unnecessarily?

British people still benefit from all of this. If they could at least stand up and fight for those still impacted that would be something.

If we think about the transatlantic slave trade, then we would need to include the Dutch and the Spanish as well as the Portuguese and the British.

However the elephant in the room is that regardless of that, they all ended up speaking English to this day ... which makes it's own statement ...

Hi guys - just to be clear, to those of you who are talking about ancient slaves.

"The slave trade" specifically refers to when slaves were brought from Africa to the Americas

@TimeMrWolf

I am so bored of this. I’m white and I don’t feel guilty about the slave trade, it wasn’t me ffs. In 1841 and at 8 years old my great, great, great great grandmother was working down a coal mine. English people were treated subhumanly too.

Oh well if you’re white and bored then we should definitely stop talking about it. Who gives a fuck if black people are still suffering in 2020 as a result of the slave trade? Not you! All lives matter! What about the English?

I know that there there were ancient slaves, but she said "the English started the slave trade", - which is african slaves being brought to the Americas

Just so we all know what time in history we are talking about

Yes and that's kind of the point @TimeMrWolf. You have the privilege to be bored of all this, as do most white British people. Black Americans do not have this luxury as they are still dealing with the consequences.

Of course. Why on earth would it have been any other way ? England has always valued property and money above life.

The slave trade could have been abolished much sooner, had the abolitionists been prepared to pay more

Attempts in Britian were made by government to abolish the slave trade and slavery in the West Indies before the slave owners were compensated. After all other legal options had been exhausted the government paid the slave owners. This was the only legal way to do it and the quickest.

As you point out this was about "property". Wrong of course but that is the way it was dealt with

BTW it was British not English

@AdultierAdult

I've been listening to an Irish history podcast and the Vikings were prolific in capturing Irish and English people from around 500AD. Any historians here who can comment on when the English started? I don't think it was that soon.

The commenter was probably referring to transatlantic slaving which the English and Portugese seem to have started.

I don't know about the Vikings but tribes within the British Isles captured each other as slaves. St Patrick was brought to County Antrim as a slave, either from Wales or the west coast of Scotland, and sold to a local chieftain. www.irishcentral.com/news/irishvoice/the-story-of-st-patricks-milchu

The English didn't start the slave trade. Obviously the Romans had slaves and the pyramids were built with slave labour. If the OP is referring to enslavement of African people, then this wasn't just England. France and Portugal also transported slaves and Africans themselves sold people into slavery. Glasgow was heavily involved in the slave trade due to merchants who owned sugar plantations.

@Pinkblueberry that is such a good point!

We feel pride for winning World War two, none of us were there.

So why do people say we can't also feel guilt for things that the U.K. did in the past.

It is about having a connection to our country, learning from our past, and wanting to do better

In America? That's not opinion, that's a fact, the English did start the slave trade as pertains to importing slaves from Africa to America, which was their colony.

It’s ridiculous to feel guilty for something our distant ancestors did. Why should we accept any responsibility for that?

If people are genuinely concerned about human rights, and want to do something about it in their own lifetimes, they should stop buying cheap crap from places like Primark and Sports Direct, that depend on what’s is essentially slave labour. Relentless consumerism is keeping plenty of people in poverty.

Did you? I knew the Brits had a huge part in it but I’m not sure they started it.

Black Americans do not have this luxury as they are still dealing with the consequences.

I think it's all Americans actually. With varying degrees of comfort and separation. But the slave trade is a deep scar through all of the present day US. With the tragedy that few actually realise it. Hence recent events.

And given the interconnectedness of the modern world, that burning wound affects us all. Whether we realise it or not.

@Mintychoc1 do you feel pride for your ancestors winning world war two?

You weren't there.

But these other people did it tooooooo.

Yes the person talking in the OP might have got fragments of the details wrong but the British really did take advantage of “triangular trade” and still reap the benefits.
It might hurt to hear the houses you live in, the banks you bank with, many schools, the beautiful old buildings, the churches, art galleries, the tree lined parks and avenues come from the hard work and lives of slaves and other poor people that your ancestors killed or took advantage of.

I’m a black Irish woman living in the U.K., I used to live in Liverpool and walked through those streets looking at those grand buildings and the huge parks and knew they will built with the profits from the sale of the lives of my people and my ancestors. And no one was talking about it. Oh they might go to the museums once or twice in their lives and it might be a nice little chat over a glass of wine at a middle class dinner party but until every person in this country acknowledges how much they still benefit from trans-Atlantic slave trade then black people will never feel safe in this country.

The right of the white person to feel comfortable does not trump might right to be safe.

I acknowledge the pain that my ancestors went through at the hands of the British why can’t the British acknowledge that it was their ancestors in any other way than “that was such a long time ago...why do I have to answer for it?”

You have to answer for still benefiting from it and you have to answer for white people not standing up in unison and recognising the impact this still has on the lives of millions of people.

@milktraylimebarrel - brought civilization to which countries? Most of them fought for their independence from us, remember!

It’s ridiculous to feel guilty for something our distant ancestors did. Why should we accept any responsibility for that?

What is distant? Would it be ok for a German person to say that in relation to the Holocaust in a 100 years time?

Doesn't anyone concede that the British brought civilisation to many of these countries and started their journey to modern life?

This is repugnant.