The English started the slave trade

[Annamaria14]

I just saw a black American woman post online,

"The English started the slave trade. They caused all our problems, they hurt generations of people. I will never set foot in that country".

What do you think? I felt a bit guilty, because the English did cause a lot of problems around the world. Have we learned from our past. How can we do better in the future

It's definitely important to remember Britain's part in the slave trade, but it's not fair to tar all the descendants with the same brush and we shouldn't feel guilty for something our ancestors did. If she doesn't want to come here, fine, but I don't think she should make out like everything to do with our country is to do with the slave trade.

But afaik Britain was one of the first countries to abolish slavery. During the American civil war, which had as a side effect the 'cotton famine' in Lancashire, there were workers who maintained solidarity with the enslaved cotton growers.

Well, they didn't really get a choice (familiar story). The Union navy blockaded the South and no cotton was coming out. So if Lancashire mill workers were going unpaid (and I bet they were) it may have been solidarity with slaves. Or it may have been because there was no work. Worth remembering how history gets (re)written all the time.

And as noted previously, when Britain did abolish slavery, it paid a fortune to the slaveowners for their loss of property. So not quite the shining light of enlightenment and liberation you might have been getting a warm feeling about previously.

Since human civilisation (are we) there has been a slave trade and there still is

The slave trade from Africa to the US yes we did start that which no doubt displaced the most amount of people with still a devastating impact over 400 years

The English did not start the slave trade but they were certainly instrumental in pushing the narrative that Africans were meant to be slaves due to the colour of their skin and this still affects black people globally today

we shouldn't feel guilty for something our ancestors did

Why not?

[quote chomalungma]Did you know that Cornish people were taken as slaves?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/30/memory-cornish-coast-dwellers-kidnapped-slavery-culturally-erased/[/quote]
The Southern Irish coast was raided for slaves too...they were known by the black slaves as "redlegs" because of how their skin burned in the West Indian sun.

www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/travel/red-legs-in-barbados-1.1235102

We could start making amends by emptying our museums of stuff we stole and giving it back to the people we stole it from.

As could all the museums in all other countries - it's not exclusively British!

How about all the pillars used in Italian buildings, obelisks, etc that were stolen from ancient civilisations and transported to cities all over Europe?

How do you think St Marks' basilica in Venice will look if you gave all the stolen pillars back - would it even still stand?

Since human civilisation

(apocryphal)

Reporter: Mr. Gandhi. What do you think of western civilisation ?
Gandhi: I think it would be a good idea.

FFS that was in the past. The Romans came here and enslaved the indigenous population. Should we blame the Italians for all the woes in the world?

And if we're going to beat ourselves up about the slave trade what about what we did in India? How about Ireland? What about us exporting tons of food out of the country while a million people died unnecessarily?

The world was a different place in those times it was expected that more powerful countries would take what they wanted from less powerful ones. God knows I'm not condoning it, but here in the 21st century we can look back on our actions and recognise them for the terrible inhumane acts that they were. That's not a luxury that they had back then and feeling guilty isn't going to change anything.

Unless you have a time machine, we have to move forward we can't change the past and while considering the past it is naive not to take account of the prevailing attitudes and beliefs of the times and realise how far we have come. It definitely isn't perfect yet but even in my lifetime we have come a long way and together we can create a society that everyone will be proud of.

If she has a visceral reaction to a country due to its role in her ancestor's pain then she does.

Whilst not in any way diminishing the role of Britain in the slave trade, a black American saying she wouldn't set foot in this country should probably also want to flee from America, which has continued treating black Americans like shit long after slavery was abolished.

The trans-Atlantic slave trade has a unique status because of its industrial scale, the fact that everybody involved should have known better but ignored it in search of profit, and the fact that its repercussions are still felt today throughout society all across North and South America (and to a lesser extent in other parts of the world). It’s very comparable to the Nazi holocaust which has a unique status over and above other historical examples of ethnic cleansing and genocide.

On a pedantic point she should have said British rather than English but that’s a widespread misunderstanding amongst Americans, and it’s shockingly common in the UK.

There is a difference between the ancient practice of slavery and what people call the slave trade. The latter was the kidnapping of more than 12 million African people and their sale into servitude in the Americas, where many of them were murdered. The Portuguese and Spanish pioneered the trade because they needed labour for their new South American colonies but the British did catch up and are generally seen as one of the two worst perpetrators.

I think you can expect people to continue to be upset about this as long as so little is done to acknowledge and atone for this. There should be more public education, forms of reparation, and above all more efforts to reduce institutional racism in the UK today.

@Abracad

It’s not really about an opinion. It’s factually correct.

No it isn't. Like many things, civilisations beat us to it before we'd perfected mud huts....en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery

Ok - what did he say, exactly

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-15020097

Some of the old weavers had tried to tell him how bad things were on his visit to Darwen. He simply replied: "My dear, you have no idea what poverty is

As could all the museums in all other countries - it's not exclusively British!

I knew someone would say this because the British way now is not to be the leader of Doing Good Things but instead pitching to the lowest denominator- at least we’re not North Korea!

Why don’t we invoke some of that good old spirit of the Empire and plunder our own museums first?

It certainly wasn't my ancestors. We were poor as church mice and probably little more than slaves ourselves.

FFS @Xenia

There is a difference between the ancient practice of slavery and what people call the slave trade.

I'm intrigued - what do you believe is different?

The vikings did a roaring trade in slaves all along the silk road, with many countries founded by slave populations (slavic). There are some really interesting documents from that era describing the best races, genders and types of people to sell for a particular client or job.

Macmillan Encyclopedia of World Slavery: ‘With the exception of marriage, the family and religion, slavery is perhaps the most ubiquitous social institution in human history.’ (Finkelman and Miller 1998: viii)

The statement she made is racist in my opinion. Saying that because some English people centuries ago were slavers, means you will never “set foot in” England is to me as bad as saying because one black person murdered someone, then all black people must be murderers. It’s nonsense.

And before anyone asks, I’m mixed white British and black African myself.

@Kazzyhoward

We could start making amends by emptying our museums of stuff we stole and giving it back to the people we stole it from.

As could all the museums in all other countries - it's not exclusively British!

How about all the pillars used in Italian buildings, obelisks, etc that were stolen from ancient civilisations and transported to cities all over Europe?

How do you think St Marks' basilica in Venice will look if you gave all the stolen pillars back - would it even still stand?

Most of the contents of the world's great museums would be on the move. They would mostly exchange the contents with each other. It's a daft idea. And if you send it to a developing country, how would it be preserved? Google Palmyra.

I don't know who the 'we' is that the pp is referring to. I haven't stolen anything and put it in a museum. In Europe most people's ancestors were agricultural labourers. Why should their descendants be denied the chance to visit museums for the sake of political correctness?

www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/29/slavery-abolition-compensation-when-will-britain-face-up-to-its-crimes-against-humanity

This is what infuriates me. No compensation for the slaves, just the owners.

Whilst not in any way diminishing the role of Britain in the slave trade, a black American saying she wouldn't set foot in this country should probably also want to flee from America, which has continued treating black Americans like shit long after slavery was abolished.

Like I said, it isn't logic. My husband doesn't have the same reaction to America which had segregation in his living memory. He just has a very powerful, emotional reaction to South Africa. An anger. Won't go there. I don't think logic comes into it and it is not my place to pick it apart- it is not my pain.

@DomDoesWotHeWants

I think the Romans may have beaten us to it. Or the Egyptians.

It's a rare civilisation that didn't have slaves, sadly.

Or the Greeks if we are referring to ancient history. As DomDoesWhatHeWants and others point out, slavery was not restricted to the 'English'. If we think about the transatlantic slave trade, then we would need to include the Dutch and the Spanish as well as the Portuguese and the British. The British Empire was built on the exploitation of others and we need to acknowledge that. Racism has a corrosive effect on all societies. It exists in Britain today. However, I personally take no responsibility for the effects of the failure to address ethnic inequalities in the US since the Declaration of Independence. I wouldn't need to anyway as my background is Irish but I wouldn't expect anyone in the UK today to feel differently unless they had family wealth that was built on the slave trade. Yes, we all need to understand why events today may have their roots in the past but let's focus on making progress in the future.

I am so bored of this. I’m white and I don’t feel guilty about the slave trade, it wasn’t me ffs.
In 1841 and at 8 years old my great, great, great great grandmother was working down a coal mine. English people were treated subhumanly too.

Very well said @dreamingbohemian I think that not wanting to be like our ancestors is a good thing. And acknowledging and apologising for actions in the past is very important. Which is why Angela Merkel visited Auschwitz recently.