To think the Covid 19 crisis has revealed a scourge of ableism and ageism in our society?

[Madhairday]

I see it on every thread about lockdown. The elderly (over 60s) and vulnerable (of whatever age) are again and again dehumanised and cast as less worthy of help than the young and the fit, who should be prioritised because they have longer and healthier life left before them. Phrases like one I saw just now about how these people will die soon anyway so why are children suffering?

I am really tired of being othered. I am really tired of being made the reason for the suffering endured by many in lockdown. Really tired of being told I should be grateful others are suffering for me. Just really tired.

Before all this I'd never have dreamed these attitudes would come to light, but in the past months I've been repeatedly punched in the gut with some of the words thrown out against the aged and the disabled and chronically ill. It seems that we truly live in a world where not all lives are equal, where in fact many are worth less than others.

Lots of people are suffering due to lockdown and the effects will continue to cause suffering. The shielded know this and are affected by it as much as everyone else. I have lost my income as well as not being able to touch another human being for nearly 3 months. Many of my shielded friends mental health is shot, too, yet on threads about mental health the shielded are yet again othered and in fact blamed for the mental health issues of those not shielding.

Many are suffering in lockdown. We know this. We know the NHS has cut off much treatment (largely because the spread of covid in hospitals is so uncontainable that they cannot risk bringing already vulnerable people onto wards as covid would exacerbate conditions and kill in greater numbers, as well as the risk for frontline staff, yet many people here seem to think the NHS has narrowed down 'because only covid deaths are important to them' )

I am deeply concerned at the level of ableism and ageism I see on here every single day at the moment. If we said someone else's life mattered less because they were black or gay we would rightly be torn to pieces, but so many are saying lives are less due to age and vulnerability, and this is going unchallenged, again and again and again.

I see it. I see it every day. I feel it deep down, a sense of worthlessness because I have long term chronic illnesses. I am likely to live many more years, however, but that doesn't fit in with the narrative so many have built around the shielded and those dying of Covid, that they must be near death anyway.

Do lives really rank one over the other due to age and illness? Is this where we are now?

I agree lockdown is hurting people. I am not one of the lockdown should last forever people. I'm just getting on with shielding quietly and carefully. But I do fear for a second wave if it's relaxed too quickly.

I would like to ask for some compassion today in the way people speak. I'd like to ask that people don't denegrate others as less worthy or state that covid is just a bad cold. Have a care for those who feel othered and dehumanised by the rhetoric that flies at us day after day.

Thank you @BatSegundo

With you there @echt. Now that's a real example of lack of empathy right there, isn't it :(

Because you can be affected by things without having a memory of them. They might have an effect for years, but not 20 years.

Oh of course

Absolutely agree with you OP. It's like racism, always there under the surface. It seems many people are only prepared to be considerate when they're not asked to put themselves out in any way.

I think it’s polarised society more than ever.

It’s seen incredible acts of kindness and courage, an awful lot of sentimentality but an unfortunate number of people showing a selfishness and reactionary side to their nature that shows little consideration for others.
It’s hard for everyone but mostly for those who have been left disabled by the virus, for those who have lost loved ones and for those caring in challenging circumstances.

I feel for those who have lost jobs, particularly as we go into recession and jobs become harder to find. People are going to have to do work they wouldn’t previously considered.
Children will survive and thrive unless their parents stop them doing so by mithering too much.
Meanwhile there are plenty profiting from others misfortune.
Yes, some have shown a real devaluation of life and their belief that disabled lives are worth less. That harms us all.

Social distancing is likely to be in place for at least six months which is massive in a child’s life. We place huge emphasis on socialisation in young puppies - why not in children too? There are developmental stages which if missed, children do not get back.

Are you not talking to them? Do they have siblings? Do they talk to other people via Zoom/the phone/a toy banana? Do you have pets? Have you locked the child in a room, alone, for the duration?

Google ‘hyperbole’ please.

@Claws google "empathy", please.

I have plenty, Mascotte. But I have no time for the ghouls on this thread and others who think that the elderly and vulnerable are somehow less worthy than the precious children - who wouldn’t even exist without them. (Before you jump on that, I have precious children of my own - and they have had their own own issues with lockdown. But now coming out of LD, they agree it was worth it to protect the vulnerable like my brother and me.)

I think your right Op and Covid has highlighted societies attitude to age and chronic health conditions in general even towards the young. One of my DC is 13 years old and has a life threatening chronic health condition. Some people have assumed she's weak and not able to participate in society as much as her ' healthy ' peers. She's faced with these subtle perceptions from others all the time because of what people think they know about her condition. The reality is DD is incredibly capable and with the right management of her condition can lead a normal, healthy and fulfilling life. She is so brave. Everyday she just gets on with what she has to do and people have no idea how much it impacts her daily life just to stay healthy. It's frustrating that's she's dismissed by some and she's somehow thought of as less. We manage this by talking of others ignorance and the fact that for many, unless they've actually lived something they won't understand it or are just not interested - happy to dismiss a person rather than learn something about their condition. Happy to compare their lives to ours, assuming we are 'worse off' than them. I've actually had a acquaintance on hearing of my DD condition say how lucky she is to have had healthy children. I too feel lucky to have my amazing children - what an insensitive thing to say but yes these things spill out of people's mouths at times. I'm so proud of my daughter. The people that have thought less of her are ignorant people. They just can't comprehend that an illness may come knocking on their families door one day. The same can be applied to old age.

I think UK society is incredibly horrible towards children.

Children in London will apparently be losing their free bus travel. The overwhelming reaction to this on social media is that its a good thing it's being removed and they never had free bus travel in the past and it will stop kids clogging up the buses etc. Meanwhile the freedom pass is just going to have the times it can be used restricted. Overwhelming attitude I've seen on social media is that the freedom pass should never be removed.

Yes, I'd call that ageism

I hope everyone furious at lockdown as an infringement of children’s rights has been equally vocal about the rise in child poverty in recent years - some schools are having to install food banks and even wash children’s clothes as their parents can’t afford electricity. And the state of services for disabled children, children’s mental health services etc.

@KizzyWayfarer I have indeed.

formerbabe Did you even read the OP? Carefully? You posted the above info above Freedom passes on another thread too. I just want to know if you understand what the OP is trying to express.

Why is anger directed at the ‘selfishness’ of older people and those with underlying conditions? Why not at the government who delayed lockdown, sent patients from hospitals into care homes, and so caused us to have more weekly deaths than all EU countries combined? Who are outsourcing vital services to dodgy private companies and are ignoring their own scientific advisers on the risk level we currently face.

@Mascotte thank you

Yeah I did read it... carefully

I'm making the point that the ageism I see in society is aimed more at children than elderly. The latest example is how many people are in favour of children losing their free travel but are adament that the freedom pass remains.

OP I agree with you as I am vulnerable and have been in the house for 90 days. This narrative was started by the government (herd immunity) right back at the beginning of the crisis and has now developed into pitching those who think they are are unlikely to get the virus/won't suffer too much if they did against those who will suffer badly.If this shambles if a government had handled the situation with any degree of competency we wouldn't be in this position and there would be no need for this kind of narrative. The Tories have handled this in the same way as they handle everything - survival of the fittest and the richest first. Don't fall for it - we are all vulnerable in our own ways, not least to a fracturing of our society which was well on its way due to government policies that have already killed vulnerable people. We need to pull together and get through this the best we can despite the government.

Maybe its jealously as most children do not get free travel. Yet free travel for seniors is everywhere.
I rarely visit London but using the Tube with my teen was ridiculous. Either pay ££ for an oyster card to get child rates or pay adult fare contactless which is cheaper than child cash rate.

We need to stop seeing the extremely vulnerable as elderly and/or disabled
There are young children, working age people, small babies, disabled and not disabled... all shielding
People keep saying about the effect on children, what about the children that are shielding? They couldn't go out for a walk let alone back to school
Just because they are shielding doesn't mean they are disabled (I don't mean that in a bad way, I mean stop lumping everyone into one category)

Absolutely @ClientQ and what about the children of parents who are shielding.
Dh is still working from home being a net contributor. He is not some old person with no value to society as many have said or low hanging fruit.
We have taken the decision to socially distance in the home as much as possible. It is not easy. The youngest is missing hugs with daddy. But with one dd having ARFID it has not been possible for me to stay home completely as online shopping not possible at the store where the main thing she eats is sold. I have had to go to 3 different branches of said shop to find suitable food on occassions.

Yes people of all ages are vulnerable to the virus but age is a risk factor, as it is with most things. Should we reduce cancer services because most people with cancer are older?
Older people have a right to life and society does need to protect all its citizens. Life is probably more important than free tube tickets (although I’d like to see free travel, across the country, for all under 18s).
Let’s remember Benjamin Franklin was 70 when he signed Declaration of Independence and Colonel Sanders was 65 when he opened KFC. Not all people over 65 are without cognisance or hidden out of view in care homes. Most, the vast majority continue to live full and valuable lives. We should be cherishing experience not consigning it to a grave.

Of course any death is sad. But the death of a 95 year old who has lived a full life is not as tragic as the death of a teenager with their whole life ahead of them.

Wow! Are we putting relative values onto different people's lives now? Is a disabled person's life worth less too? Worse still, I've read comments about a younger person's mental health being worth more than the life of an older person. This sort of comment is exactly why I agree with the Op.

Maybe its jealously as most children do not get free travel. Yet free travel for seniors is everywhere.

No, it isn't! There is free tube travel in London for over 60s who live in London, but while most pensioners can get a free bus pass, buses are not frequent in most parts of the country! Please don't generalize.