To think the Covid 19 crisis has revealed a scourge of ableism and ageism in our society?

[Madhairday]

I see it on every thread about lockdown. The elderly (over 60s) and vulnerable (of whatever age) are again and again dehumanised and cast as less worthy of help than the young and the fit, who should be prioritised because they have longer and healthier life left before them. Phrases like one I saw just now about how these people will die soon anyway so why are children suffering?

I am really tired of being othered. I am really tired of being made the reason for the suffering endured by many in lockdown. Really tired of being told I should be grateful others are suffering for me. Just really tired.

Before all this I'd never have dreamed these attitudes would come to light, but in the past months I've been repeatedly punched in the gut with some of the words thrown out against the aged and the disabled and chronically ill. It seems that we truly live in a world where not all lives are equal, where in fact many are worth less than others.

Lots of people are suffering due to lockdown and the effects will continue to cause suffering. The shielded know this and are affected by it as much as everyone else. I have lost my income as well as not being able to touch another human being for nearly 3 months. Many of my shielded friends mental health is shot, too, yet on threads about mental health the shielded are yet again othered and in fact blamed for the mental health issues of those not shielding.

Many are suffering in lockdown. We know this. We know the NHS has cut off much treatment (largely because the spread of covid in hospitals is so uncontainable that they cannot risk bringing already vulnerable people onto wards as covid would exacerbate conditions and kill in greater numbers, as well as the risk for frontline staff, yet many people here seem to think the NHS has narrowed down 'because only covid deaths are important to them' )

I am deeply concerned at the level of ableism and ageism I see on here every single day at the moment. If we said someone else's life mattered less because they were black or gay we would rightly be torn to pieces, but so many are saying lives are less due to age and vulnerability, and this is going unchallenged, again and again and again.

I see it. I see it every day. I feel it deep down, a sense of worthlessness because I have long term chronic illnesses. I am likely to live many more years, however, but that doesn't fit in with the narrative so many have built around the shielded and those dying of Covid, that they must be near death anyway.

Do lives really rank one over the other due to age and illness? Is this where we are now?

I agree lockdown is hurting people. I am not one of the lockdown should last forever people. I'm just getting on with shielding quietly and carefully. But I do fear for a second wave if it's relaxed too quickly.

I would like to ask for some compassion today in the way people speak. I'd like to ask that people don't denegrate others as less worthy or state that covid is just a bad cold. Have a care for those who feel othered and dehumanised by the rhetoric that flies at us day after day.

Excellent post darkmint.
I wouldn't want to take my chance on fighting for an ICU bed either.

Thank you darkmint - and also OP for your patient and thoughtful posts.

Cancer Research estimates about 2.4 million people in the UK are waiting for screening, treatment or tests with a potential 23,000 cancers having gone undiagnosed during lockdown

These are dreadful figures and of course is going to equate to lives lost unnecessarily. But I can’t help but wonder, if the figures on potential corona cases quoted above are anywhere near true, if we had just locked down those who were vulnerable and left the rest of us to it, if the hospitals had been overrun, with potentially hundreds of people needing every available ITU bed, what would have the impact been then on cancer services (as an example)? Do you really think they would have remained operational? And if so, you don’t think that those who would have been diagnosed with cancer would have been at even more risk wandering about hospitals (my local one is a rabbit Warren) where COVID was rife? I think, sadly, there was no winning with this one. The only possible solution would have been to close us as an island as soon as we knew about it but that’s hindsight and would not have been without problems either.

The cost of lockdown will hit the beginning of January next year, funding to the NHS will be cut, millions unemployed, children still not in school full time, society will break down. Riots and looting will be an every day affair but yet people on here will still say is was all worth it

www.independent.co.uk/voices/coronavirus-lockdown-school-parents-vulnerable-children-mumsnet-a9558376.html

This article mentions ableism on Mumsnet specifically. Vulnerable people do not need to be grateful to anybody!

Thanks for that Swan.

Don't worry no one is ever grateful to tax payers (and of course many of those who are sick are also tax payers too),

I don't think it will be as bad as Alex says so I will not be pulling up the draw bridge and buying in the guns as yet, but we do somehow need all to pull together, Labour/Tory, Brexit/Remain Black/White, Male/Female, Able/Sick or we will not continue to function well as a nation. There will be a lot of belt tightening although mind you what will most save the NHS is if most people eat large amounts less than they do so that might be a double benefit.

Thank you so much @TheClaws

Thank you @DarkMintChocolate for your helpful post too.

But I can’t help but wonder, if the figures on potential corona cases quoted above are anywhere near true, if we had just locked down those who were vulnerable and left the rest of us to it, if the hospitals had been overrun, with potentially hundreds of people needing every available ITU bed, what would have the impact been then on cancer services (as an example)? Do you really think they would have remained operational? And if so, you don’t think that those who would have been diagnosed with cancer would have been at even more risk wandering about hospitals (my local one is a rabbit Warren) where COVID was rife? I think, sadly, there was no winning with this one

Agree completely with this. Those who only point to suffering caused by lockdown tend to forget what it could have been like if there were no lockdown, as those figures modelled - it would have caused great and widespread suffering over all sectors, not the least cancer patients who would have had even more treatment cancelled and a much higher risk of catching Covid too.

There are no win win solutions in this so we just have to get on with it as best we can while trying to be compassionate for everyone who is struggling in any way.

What do you think break down of society looks like? Police not being able to cope, mass unemployment, the population disunited, arguing, not coming together. Children not having an education, health care system crumbling, homelessness, food shortages. Watch this space, without a government that brings people together our society will start to crumble.

@Alex50

What do you think break down of society looks like? Police not being able to cope, mass unemployment, the population disunited, arguing, not coming together. Children not having an education, health care system crumbling, homelessness, food shortages. Watch this space, without a government that brings people together our society will start to crumble.

Our society has been shut down.

For months.

We have deliberately damaged it by our actions.

How strong it will be as it starts again is an open question.

I suppose there are some people who are not suffering in lockdown, I've seen suggestions on here that there may be. IRL I dont know any of them, just varying degrees of suffering. Those who would most like to see lockdown end not necessarily those who have least risk from the virus. Quite a lot of the elderly and really sick would like to enjoy the time they have left. It's hard to give up the little time you have so that a bed will be available in ICU for other people. Will those who think children should be thanked thank them too?

Xenia is also obsessed by fat - perhaps she needs to bolster her self esteem by denigrating and dividing because IRL she is an obese person who has never worked. Food waste probably has dropped in lockdown because waste from restaurants is high.

There is perhaps and argument that some aspects of society have improved. More community spirit and concern for vulnerable neighbours in many towns and villages, might be one example.
Less focus on acquisition of 'things', better air quality, parents spending more time with their children, young children having the time and freedom to play. Its not all doom and gloom but there are inevitably some hardships for many people; they are relatively short term hardships though. The polarisation of society is a real concern though.

The degree to which we've shut down society, at the cost of many billions of pounds, to protect those demographies suggests the opposite surely

I had hoped for cleaner air. I live on the edge of London and the reduction in noise, ability to see stars at night/ see across London, and the cleanliness of the air was incredible.

Everyone's back to normal though so the air is not clean, cars zooming around day and night, and visibility is again reduced. More planes again as well.

I thought everyone would go back to how they were before and they have, in terms of getting back into cars. Still, the government have advised to drive rather than get public transport so it was inevitable.

"The degree to which we've shut down society, at the cost of many billions of pounds, to protect those demographies suggests the opposite surely"

What demographics do you think we are protecting? Lockdown was never about protecting the elderly or sick, it was about ensuring there would be beds in ICU for the working age population. We only went into any sort of lockdown when it was realised that overweight 55 year olds might find it difficult to get care for anything because all beds would be full of Covid patients and quite a few of the health care staff would be dead.

Of course some lives were saved among the elderly and sick population but that was never the aim.

Actually we didn't lock down hard enough or early enough to save enough lives. Had we done so, we may have had a clearer exit path and less anger directed at the vulnerable; it should be directed at the government.

@CherryPavlova the infections came in through our borders, without locking down airport and ports arrivals lockdown was a bit of a waste of time, they also needed test and trace which didn’t happen.

Alex50. I agree and think our lockdown should have included airport lockdown and no Cheltenham.

@Xenia

Don't worry no one is ever grateful to tax payers (and of course many of those who are sick are also tax payers too),

I don't think it will be as bad as Alex says so I will not be pulling up the draw bridge and buying in the guns as yet, but we do somehow need all to pull together, Labour/Tory, Brexit/Remain Black/White, Male/Female, Able/Sick or we will not continue to function well as a nation. There will be a lot of belt tightening although mind you what will most save the NHS is if most people eat large amounts less than they do so that might be a double benefit.

So even the taxpaying sick's lives are worth less than your fortune?

Maybe you should buy another island and bugger off there.

Basically the Government screwed up.
Hell they didn't exactly protect the vulnerable in care homes. Yet we should be eternally grateful for having to shield for longer because BJ and his cronies though a Baby Shower was more important.

what will most save the NHS is if most people eat large amounts less than they do so that might be a double benefit

Good grief missed this gem. Shall we just let the poor and sick starve or do you think they are all obese and a burden on the NHS?

@CherryPavlova

Actually we didn't lock down hard enough or early enough to save enough lives. Had we done so, we may have had a clearer exit path and less anger directed at the vulnerable; it should be directed at the government.

Quite

Xenia, it'll be the same people tightening their belt as it always has been. So not people with serious money.

We’ll look back at this and we shouldn’t have locked down. There was an article in the BBC yesterday that hardly any infections came from schools. They came from travellers coming into the country, a football match which had many Spanish travellers to the UK. Care homes have nearly 50% deaths, there should’ve been a process set up to protect care homes. Track and trace. We could’ve done other things than shut down the whole country. It was one big error which we might not ever recover from.