To think the Covid 19 crisis has revealed a scourge of ableism and ageism in our society?

[Madhairday]

I see it on every thread about lockdown. The elderly (over 60s) and vulnerable (of whatever age) are again and again dehumanised and cast as less worthy of help than the young and the fit, who should be prioritised because they have longer and healthier life left before them. Phrases like one I saw just now about how these people will die soon anyway so why are children suffering?

I am really tired of being othered. I am really tired of being made the reason for the suffering endured by many in lockdown. Really tired of being told I should be grateful others are suffering for me. Just really tired.

Before all this I'd never have dreamed these attitudes would come to light, but in the past months I've been repeatedly punched in the gut with some of the words thrown out against the aged and the disabled and chronically ill. It seems that we truly live in a world where not all lives are equal, where in fact many are worth less than others.

Lots of people are suffering due to lockdown and the effects will continue to cause suffering. The shielded know this and are affected by it as much as everyone else. I have lost my income as well as not being able to touch another human being for nearly 3 months. Many of my shielded friends mental health is shot, too, yet on threads about mental health the shielded are yet again othered and in fact blamed for the mental health issues of those not shielding.

Many are suffering in lockdown. We know this. We know the NHS has cut off much treatment (largely because the spread of covid in hospitals is so uncontainable that they cannot risk bringing already vulnerable people onto wards as covid would exacerbate conditions and kill in greater numbers, as well as the risk for frontline staff, yet many people here seem to think the NHS has narrowed down 'because only covid deaths are important to them' )

I am deeply concerned at the level of ableism and ageism I see on here every single day at the moment. If we said someone else's life mattered less because they were black or gay we would rightly be torn to pieces, but so many are saying lives are less due to age and vulnerability, and this is going unchallenged, again and again and again.

I see it. I see it every day. I feel it deep down, a sense of worthlessness because I have long term chronic illnesses. I am likely to live many more years, however, but that doesn't fit in with the narrative so many have built around the shielded and those dying of Covid, that they must be near death anyway.

Do lives really rank one over the other due to age and illness? Is this where we are now?

I agree lockdown is hurting people. I am not one of the lockdown should last forever people. I'm just getting on with shielding quietly and carefully. But I do fear for a second wave if it's relaxed too quickly.

I would like to ask for some compassion today in the way people speak. I'd like to ask that people don't denegrate others as less worthy or state that covid is just a bad cold. Have a care for those who feel othered and dehumanised by the rhetoric that flies at us day after day.

some people just wish to divide - Xenia wants everyone back in work so her profits can go up. She'll be sitting happily at home counting the profit while others die but she'd like more to die so her profits wont have to be taxed as much. She'd also prefer the NHS to be abolished or be a phone ap, fat lot of use that would be now.

The government thought it was protecting the economy by letting the virus rage, instead of locking down early. It didnt lockdown to protect the elderly and shielded, although people like xenia think if repeated often enough you can make society think that. We locked down to ensure that hospital care would continue to be available for the working age population.

By delaying lockdown the government wrecked the economy. The virus spread so rapidly that people themselves chose to stay in rather than get severely ill and risk dying. Lockdown is also breathing space to develop new treatments, fewer people would have died if lockdown had been even a week earlier..

Perhaps there neeeds to be a lot more about the contribution the "sick" make to society e.g. - Stephen Hawkins, diabetic www.nursingschools.net/blog/2011/01/50-famous-successful-people-who-are-diabetic/

I'm grateful to all those who continue working so I can get food, my bin emptied, shopping delivered. I'm glad the NHS will have room for them if they become ill.

I always loved the UK, never wanted to leave but now I want emigrate to a kinder place. All this shouting i’m more important that you, is so sad. We should all be working together to solve getting our society back to the way it was or the future looks bleak for all of us young and old. There will be life before 2020 and life after, well the one after 2020 is looking pretty awful.

Perhaps there needs to be a lot more about the contribution the "sick" make to society

Good idea for a thread.
Though maybe not in current times.

Anyone getting worried yet about the looming job losses:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52990612

Given our family already has had a job loss, yes, of course.

Not wanting the language used to discuss the elderly, disabled and ill to be dehumanising does not mean I cannot think of anything else.

Did anyone watch the special report on coronavirus from skynews.
It is very scary. None of the ventilated patients are 90 for obvious reasons.

Perhaps there needs to be a lot more about the contribution the "sick" make to society

Good idea for a thread.
Though maybe not in current times.

Actually I think it's a terrible idea for a thread. What about the sick who don't contribute anything? Are they worthless? Why should people be expected to contribute to be of value.

I was just looking online to see if suicides have increased as a result of COVID-19 and no statistics yet, the modelling predicts no increase during the lockdown but a huge increase afterwards as a result of the economic downturn.

I have to say that the comment about mental health being fixable really struck me as very thoughtless, particularly to those who have lost loved ones to suicide.

www.nytimes.com/2020/05/19/health/pandemic-coronavirus-suicide-health.amp.html

I have to say that the comment about mental health being fixable really struck me as very thoughtless, particularly to those who have lost loved ones to suicide

That was my comment, and I'm sorry if you feel it was thoughtless. I am speaking from the perspective of having my teen child locked in a psych ward on a mattress with a security guard outside the door, so I'm not unfamiliar with severe mental health problems.

My comment about 'fixable' was more about the kids who are situationally 'down', due to lockdown, and who will bounce back pretty quickly once the situation changes.

I have to say that the comment about mental health being fixable really struck me as very thoughtless, particularly to those who have lost loved ones to suicide.*

This for certain. It’s also very naive and simplistic. Mental health isn’t fixable, you find ways of coping with it. Most of us who have MH issues will always have them.

I have PTSD as a result of childhood SA. I’ve had treatment for my PTSD and I’ve come to terms with the trauma, but the memories won’t go away and it would be naive to think they would. I’ve also ended up with CFS, though this was also as a result of having pneumonia last year and COVID-19 this year. But it was a result of dealing long-term with trauma and pain, in the end the body breaks down.

So it isn’t fixable. But support from GPs and community mental health teams is very important and the lack of this during lockdown will have been very damaging for a lot of people. My DB has much more serious MH issues and he lives alone, like many other people in his position. There will be suicides and attempted suicides because it feels never ending.

Melia I do get what you mean. I also have 2 adopted DDs of 11 and 9, with their own issues that are exacerbated by lockdown and not seeing their friends.

I would like to think this could be fixable too. I’m really sorry to hear about your teen child, that sounds really hard.

re 'fixable' it was a bad choice of word, and what I had in my head at the moment I used it was my own son, and his own particular situation. Which I hope very much is fixable.

All government needed to do was to shield the old and the sick and let everyone else carry on life as normal if that was the reason lockdown happened. So.why didn't they do that then?

Yes!

@Nonotthatdr

Hearhooves

Lockdown might have been officially done to protect the nhs but the coms were “dont go out or you will kill granny” people think they are staying in to protect the vulnerable. They are sacrificing loads to do this and they think there doing it to protect those more at risk. So to then be told they are ableist when they express how hard it is that there hungry and frustrated and lacking exercise and human contacts and loosing there jobs and home is unfair and will just increase resentment. People are suffering, and on the whole they are continuing to Remain at home despite their suffering, so yes I think the young need to be thanked by the nation for their sacrifice. A national clap for children perhaps?

Don’t you think the ”don’t go out or you’ll kill granny” was maybe to get people to act because we are inherently selfish humans who look after our own? I don’t know, just thinking out loud. My gran is nearly 90. When she dies, I’ll be very sad, of course, but she’s had a good life and it’s certainly no tragedy but it’s human nature to feel more protective of those we love. I wonder if the government were trying to tug on our heart strings.

Thanks Mittens it was very traumatic, and we had to call in many favours to have her released from isolation, but it is in the past now.

Thankfully my son is not anywhere near so unwell as his sister was.

Some people here struggle to feel empathy for more than one group of people. 🤷🏻‍♀️
I am concerned about children and particularly concerned about vulnerable children who are not coming to the attention of services such as; school and health visitors. I worry about their lack of visibility and what’s happening to their education and welfare. I am concerned about people of all ages who are having supposedly non essential, non life saving treatment. I’m not going to list it all. Very few are exempt.
Why is it one or the other?

I am not accusing people who are saying they are struggling in any way of being ableist. I am not saying I am more important than anyone else. I am not saying children should stay locked up forever. I am not saying children do not suffer mental health issues. I am not saying lockdown will not cause great social and economic upheaval.

I have not said any of these things I have been accused of. This was not a thread debating lockdown or schools; there are multitudes of those already. It was not a thread attempting to pitch mental health against physical health. There are enough of those.

It was a thread about language those of us who are vulnerable and shielding have noticed and have been hurt by in the past weeks and months. It was a thread about language that dehumanises and lessens lives, sometimes sending people into worse mental health (like my shielding friend who tried to take her life recently, she said that she felt worthless and as if she was taking up space because people kept talking in derogatory terms about those people who were going to die anyway so why sacrifice for them.) It was a thread to lay out my own experience as a disabled person of ableism I have experienced through my life and how some of it has come closer to the surface in recent times.

It doesn't mean I think schools shouldn't go back.
It doesn't mean I hate children.
It doesn't mean I am grabby and ungrateful.

It means I am hurting and wanted to communicate that and reach out to those others also hurting, many who have posted here.

To say I hear you.

@Madhairday

I think you’ve been very articulate and balanced. Thank you.

Madhairday

I completely agree with you.

I feel the same as you and thank you for starting the thread

Thank you Haenow

And @Hearhoovesthinkzebras

'Don’t you think the ”don’t go out or you’ll kill granny” was maybe to get people to act because we are inherently selfish humans who look after our own?'

Yes they set out to really terrify people as they expected non compliance. When people generally just said ok then and followed the rules they were surprised and now of course they've got a different problem when they want people to start going back to normal. By saying you'll kill granny and also overstating the risk to the population who do not have risk factors, they have scared a lot of people into thinking that the whole point of staying in was because it's a killer virus (for everyone and anyone) and loads of people are too scared to eg let their kids back to school.

They have really fucked this all up by using manipulation rather than just telling us the facts.

All government needed to do was to shield the old and the sick and let everyone else carry on life as normal if that was the reason lockdown happened. So.why didn't they do that then?

According to the article in the Lancet on non-pharmaceutical interventions to Covid 19 last week:

www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(20)30133-X/fulltext

if the virus had been left unchecked, there would have been 23 million cases, with peak demand for ICU beds of 200,000 (given there were 4,562 ICU beds before any increase in capacity), peak demand of 390,000 non ICU beds and 350,000 deaths. Had the only intervention been of shielding older age groups, there would still have been 17 million cases, peak demand of 120,000 ICU beds, peak demand of 220,000 non ICU beds and 210,000 deaths.

How many posters would like to risk being one of 120,000 people needing an ICU bed at peak demand, given initial capacity of 4,562? Imagine the scenes in hospitals and the choices doctors would have had to make?

Closing schools for 12 weeks saved lives, but those savings would have been wiped out if each child under 15 had grandparent (a person 55 years old than them) care one day a week.

As for thanking children, imo any sacrifice they made, pales into insignificance compared to those who have died, like the key workers, who went to work, despite inadequate PPE, training in infection control, etc; or the elderly in care homes infected by patients discharged from hospitals without testing; or people refused ambulances and hospital care.

That is a huge price we have paid and yet on this thread people are not even grateful and do not even recognise we made the sacrifice.

Grateful? So we should be kissing your feet for staying inside as well as for paying taxes?

You are so full of yourself @Xenia