To think the Covid 19 crisis has revealed a scourge of ableism and ageism in our society?

[Madhairday]

I see it on every thread about lockdown. The elderly (over 60s) and vulnerable (of whatever age) are again and again dehumanised and cast as less worthy of help than the young and the fit, who should be prioritised because they have longer and healthier life left before them. Phrases like one I saw just now about how these people will die soon anyway so why are children suffering?

I am really tired of being othered. I am really tired of being made the reason for the suffering endured by many in lockdown. Really tired of being told I should be grateful others are suffering for me. Just really tired.

Before all this I'd never have dreamed these attitudes would come to light, but in the past months I've been repeatedly punched in the gut with some of the words thrown out against the aged and the disabled and chronically ill. It seems that we truly live in a world where not all lives are equal, where in fact many are worth less than others.

Lots of people are suffering due to lockdown and the effects will continue to cause suffering. The shielded know this and are affected by it as much as everyone else. I have lost my income as well as not being able to touch another human being for nearly 3 months. Many of my shielded friends mental health is shot, too, yet on threads about mental health the shielded are yet again othered and in fact blamed for the mental health issues of those not shielding.

Many are suffering in lockdown. We know this. We know the NHS has cut off much treatment (largely because the spread of covid in hospitals is so uncontainable that they cannot risk bringing already vulnerable people onto wards as covid would exacerbate conditions and kill in greater numbers, as well as the risk for frontline staff, yet many people here seem to think the NHS has narrowed down 'because only covid deaths are important to them' )

I am deeply concerned at the level of ableism and ageism I see on here every single day at the moment. If we said someone else's life mattered less because they were black or gay we would rightly be torn to pieces, but so many are saying lives are less due to age and vulnerability, and this is going unchallenged, again and again and again.

I see it. I see it every day. I feel it deep down, a sense of worthlessness because I have long term chronic illnesses. I am likely to live many more years, however, but that doesn't fit in with the narrative so many have built around the shielded and those dying of Covid, that they must be near death anyway.

Do lives really rank one over the other due to age and illness? Is this where we are now?

I agree lockdown is hurting people. I am not one of the lockdown should last forever people. I'm just getting on with shielding quietly and carefully. But I do fear for a second wave if it's relaxed too quickly.

I would like to ask for some compassion today in the way people speak. I'd like to ask that people don't denegrate others as less worthy or state that covid is just a bad cold. Have a care for those who feel othered and dehumanised by the rhetoric that flies at us day after day.

@Woodlandwalks

But isn't exactly the opposite true OP. There will always be people who are unhappy with whatever is happening, not just to do with Covid, you only have to look at Brexit to see how divided the UK is on opinions. So I don't think it's important or all that relevant to simply be upset because you have seen some posts that you disagree with and don't like. But the reason there are these posts for you to see in the first place is because people are speaking up for their children when their children have been left behind. Simply put, the fact is that the country has been grounded to a halt to protect only a small percentage of the population and the welfare of children has undeniably been sacrificed in order to do that. So you can be upset that you see people are not happy with the policies as they are all you like but the reason there are such mindsets in the first place is what the actual stance being held in this country at this present time is that children and their well-being is less important than that of the elderly and the vulnerable.

People can be upset with how government have handled it because government have mishandled it in a spectacular fashion. The economy is wrecked , children have missed out on a lot, people have lost jobs, many thousands of people have died unnecessarily. Of course we should all be angry.

Here's the kicker - none of that happened to protect the old or the sick.

They could have just shielded the old and the sick if that was the reason.

They had to lockdown because too many people were at risk. The old and the sick are at a greater risk of dying but a huge number of people are at risk of getting a more severe reaction that requires hospitalisation. If they get that care then they can make a good recovery. The problem occurs if there isn't capacity to admit them and in a wider sense if too many people are away from work sick then essential services collapse. That was why lockdown happened.

Why is it so difficult to understand?

I absolutely hate the argument that kids are resilient. It's always said by adults to try to convince themselves and feel better that its fine for kids to live in shitty circumstances. Kids aren't more resilient, they're just not as good at expressing their feelings directly.

Young adults not having a future, a goal, structure, is very dangerous for society

I have 2 young adults living at home.

Dd has only just started seeing her friends at a park where they sit 2metres apart to chat.
Ds hasn’t been out for weeks.

Both SE both are atm on UC. Some of their work will resume 1st July.

Both have used the time to further their careers/learn new skills/look for other work

I think it depends on the person what lockdown has meant to different people.

Personally I don’t think they could have worked harder.

The opportunities have been there it all depends on whether people have taken them.

I think the difference between a lot of children and my 2 are they weren’t bright enough to do A levels or go to university so aren’t expecting people to give them jobs (although Dd does regularly get offered managerial jobs in offices quite often)

So they go out and create their own work.

I don’t think COVID has anything to do with young people leaving university with no jobs to go to. That for many is normal

I absolutely hate the argument that kids are resilient I believe they absolutely are more resilient than they are given credit for DC all over the world face harsh things daily, reading or hearing war stories from the elderly of when they were a DC during the war in the UK they're proud they built their life and morals with the resilience they learnt in their day.

'Young people don't have to be destroyed by this but a creeping culture of entitlement dictates that they must be because they are missing out on usual life stuff - stuff that they are privileged enough to have living in a rich western country as it is.'

Seeing friends and family, going to school, getting an education are now a 'privilege'?

What on earth.

'reading or hearing war stories from the elderly of when they were a DC during the war in the UK they're proud they built their life and morals with the resilience they learnt in their day.'

Morals?

Young people are not only spoiled by going to school, and lack resilience, and now they're immoral as well.

The UK on the whole does not like children. This thread is a great example.

If you don’t look after the young, the old and vulnerable will suffer in the long run. Society has to look after each other, that is how a civil society works. Young people without decent job prospects, not able support themselves is a scary prospect. The furlough scheme is starting to be wound down from August, there will be millions of redundancies by Christmas. I am dreading the future for young and old.

People generally are fairly resilient. We humans manage to get through some incredibly tough times. Children are part of the set, 'people'.

Thank you melia

Welcome, Northensoulgirl45

We've been through the wringer here with two children and mental health issues, one of them very serious. I know it's hard, and lock down makes it even harder. I hope there is face to face provision for your child soon.

We are fine thank you. She is relatively calm right now as she is where she is in her safe space. Ie home.

Hope things are looking up melia ir will soon.

Sorry that made no sense.

I also think if you consider the discharge of patients into care homes, thus contributing to the infection and deaths of hundreds of elderly people, protection of the elderly then you need to take a long hard look at yourself.

Remind me again why hospitals had to discharge patients into care homes? Oh yes, to free up.beds for everyone who got sick from Covid, which included many previously young healthy people.

So, in this case, you could argue that actually the elderly were sacrificed, including all those in care homes who were denied medical care when they were infected with COVID19.

@Xenia

Yes go by our actions not our words. As a nation we have plunged ourselves into probably the worst depression since the great forst of 1709 according to the bank of england and sacrificed the educations of children, students, career prospects of many and plunged many of those 50% of workers who are not paid by the state directly or by furlough into life changing economic disaster. We have done all that to look after the old and sick. It is a massive huge cost (not in my view a cost that is fair or worth it or in the greater good but the Government decided to spend spend spend and suspend civil liberties of 66m people just to help the old and sick. That is a huge price we have paid and yet on this thread people are not even grateful and do not even recognise we made the sacrifice. If they do not even acknowledge it what was the point of doing it at all? By our deeds are we known and we have made massive steps to protect the sick and old, deeds that will hurt many of the 66m for a generation and will hurt most of them massively more than covid 19 ever would.

So to answer the OP's question, yes.

Those in care homes were so well protected. Not

I agree. However I’d say in some ways I feel Covid19 has bought out the best people, and the worst in people. I think the majority have bought out the best in themselves, they have reached out to those shielding and dropped off shopping to a disabled persons doorstep, even if it meant exposing themselves to risk. Healthcare workers with diabetes still turning up for work, working for others.

However there is a really arsy, annoying commentary from some people who seem to think they know more than scientists and are ‘just fed up’ and can’t see why ‘people have to lose their jobs because of some old person who was going to die anyway’. Just idiots to be honest and thankfully they are not as many as those just trying their best to get on with it.

Northernsoulgirl45

Exactly.

I wonder what sacrifices were made by the young and healthy to protect those souls?

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

I also think if you consider the discharge of patients into care homes, thus contributing to the infection and deaths of hundreds of elderly people, protection of the elderly then you need to take a long hard look at yourself.

Remind me again why hospitals had to discharge patients into care homes? Oh yes, to free up.beds for everyone who got sick from Covid, which included many previously young healthy people.

So, in this case, you could argue that actually the elderly were sacrificed, including all those in care homes who were denied medical care when they were infected with COVID19.

And yes totally agree. WE the young fit and healthy, did not ‘lose our livelihoods’ and ‘rubbish our children’s education’ to nobly take care of all the disabled and elderly people. They died often without proper palliative care, without their family, in care homes, discharged from hospital or not allowed in hospital, so that ‘fitter’ people could have beds.

And even if ‘WE’ had not locked down, guess what?! Livelihoods would have been lost, cancer services would have been cancelled, schools would have closed... I’m not sure people really get this?!

Our economy is going to be the worst in Europe, buckle up people as this is going one hell of a bumpy ride, worse than coronvirus:

www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jun/10/uk-economy-likely-to-suffer-worst-covid-19-damage-says-oecd

Cancer treatments have been lost already
Cancer services are also starting to reopen.
Cancer Research estimates about 2.4 million people in the UK are waiting for screening, treatment or tests with a potential 23,000 cancers having gone undiagnosed during lockdown.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52984742

@formerbabe

I absolutely hate the argument that kids are resilient. It's always said by adults to try to convince themselves and feel better that its fine for kids to live in shitty circumstances. Kids aren't more resilient, they're just not as good at expressing their feelings directly.

You’d be surprised. It’s adults like you projecting negativity onto them that’s perhaps causing any issues.

Hearhooves

Lockdown might have been officially done to protect the nhs but the coms were “dont go out or you will kill granny” people think they are staying in to protect the vulnerable. They are sacrificing loads to do this and they think there doing it to protect those more at risk. So to then be told they are ableist when they express how hard it is that there hungry and frustrated and lacking exercise and human contacts and loosing there jobs and home is unfair and will just increase resentment. People are suffering, and on the whole they are continuing to Remain at home despite their suffering, so yes I think the young need to be thanked by the nation for their sacrifice. A national clap for children perhaps?

You’d be surprised. It’s adults like you projecting negativity onto them that’s perhaps causing any issues.

Seriously...just get lost...I'm not showing my dc any negativity...I just come on here to spout it thanks.

And even if ‘WE’ had not locked down, guess what?! Livelihoods would have been lost, cancer services would have been cancelled, schools would have closed... I’m not sure people really get this?!

Exactly. It really isn't difficult to understand is it?

Nonotthatdr

The message from government was always clear, writ large across the podiums at daily briefing

Stay at home. Protect the NHS. Save lives

If anyone interpreted that as "stay at home, save granny" well, that's how they chose to interpret it.

As a society we have all done what's been needed to protect everyone in society.

Those of us shielding have given up our freedoms in order to.protect NHS resources.

Many of us have had medical treatments cancelled, haven't seen any family (I haven't seen my children since March) not seen my elderly parents since March, not been outside my house until this week

We have all sacrificed in order to protect everyone.