AIBU - 'Karen' is about class, why are people so class-blind?

[Beancounter1]

AIBU to hate the way people confuse racism and sexism with class prejudice? To my mind, the use of the insult 'Karen', especially popular in the USA, doesn't just mean a middle-aged white woman who is arrogant, self-righteous, self absorbed, complaining, trouble-making, full-of-herself, etc. etc.
It means a middle or upper class woman with these characteristics. You won't see a working class 'Karen'. The stereotypical 'Karen' behaves as she does because she is on a power trip. Her social class advantage has gone to her head. That is why she complains in restaurants and is rude to shop assistants.
Why are people so blind to class prejudice? Why is the world so often seen only through the lens of race or sex? Is it because the powers-that-be (the 'elite') have a vested interest in deflecting and forestalling any class-based collective action or class consciousness? We are not encouraged to talk or think about class, but it is as significant as ever.

Amy Cooper is a psychopath.

She isn't representative of any group of women.

"This has become just one more way of sniping at women."

This is true, sadly, but it doesn't mean women like this don't exist.

It's a bit like calling white working/middle class middle aged men "gammons" though isn't it? And no one minds that. Certainly no opinion pieces in the Guardian trying to put a stop to it, despite the racist undertones.

In the USA, Karen's tend to have a racist edge to them that is very unpleasant, but our British variety tends to be just a good old shrill busy body, more likely to be a far lefty, constantly on the verge of a nervous breakdown and indiscriminate when to comes to whom she targets (apart from other Karens of course, with whom she will happily work). Our Karens are way more lovable, coming right up to your face to hiss at you that you are not social distancing enough from her.

I was going to suggest that there should be a big celebration of Karens - like a Pride march, where they can openly be themselves and own it. But there already is, it's called Extinction Rebellion.

I've never bothered to look into it really, but imagined it to be a Waynetta sorta gal.

I always saw it as a punt at the hyacinth Buckets of the world.

Which is annoying as my my mums called Karen and she's lovely

At this point we could just substitute 'Karen' anywhere we previously used 'bitch'.
I'm never going to be ok with that.

I can't think of a single perjorative term used for women (bitch, harridan, slag, shrill, witch, cunt, homewrecker, bossy, head girl, know it all, pushy, strident, etc etc and now god help me the name my feminist mother chose for me with love, Karen) that has anything remotely like a male equivalent.

These words are all just for us. We don't usually kill people, send people off to war or use our cars to prove our virility. We rarely hit anyone or use deadly weapons. We don't usually head up structures that perpetuate inequality, or get jobs for our mates high up in those structures.

But we speak, we have sex and we are critical. So we bear the brunt of society's hatred and approbation.

If anyone thinks this is about over reacting' to a word' then they desperately need to learn how inequality is created and perpetuated, and how punching down reinforces the very architecture of what most of us are complaining about in the first place.

Couple more female only perjoratives without male equivalents:

Busy body
Hiss

Please do add more.

*Amy Cooper is a psychopath.

She isn't representative of any group of women.*

There are millions of Amy Coopers out there. They exercise their white privilege against Black people without really thinking or caring too much about the consequences. They don't all do it in such an extreme way (mostly because they don't all get the opportunity) but they still do it. I'd go so far as to say the majority of white women in the US and UK are Amy Coopers to some degree or other.

I thought Karen was working class

Oh no no no... a Karen is the sort of person who is working class but bought a house at the right time so has expendable income. Drives a Range Rover on finance despite living in a 3 story townhouse, has floral wallpaper on one wall of every wall and loves nothing more than crushed velvet decor. Occasionally has “live, laugh, love” tattood on her wrist. She believes life owes her a favour and wants to speak to the manager. There are variations on the Karenometer, ranging from just Karen right up to mega Karen.

Spot on @MorrisZapp :

It's my name but I'm not personally offended by it. I'm offended on behalf of all middle aged women, because that's what Karen means. It means female and born in the 60s or 70s. Pamela, Debbie, Sarah, Louise, Amanda, Jennifer, step on up. Its all of us. We've reached an age where our people pleasing days are over. So instead of accepting crap service we say no, that's not what the menu says or whatever. But what could be even worse than a woman who is no longer deemed fuckable?
A woman deemed unfuckable who talks too much. Insert the usual words - pushy, assertive, bossy. Ask when you last heard those words to describe a man.

It's a sexist piece of crap, whichever way you cut it. And of course you prove what a Karen you are if you object to it, because (lol! This is so funny!) that's what Karen's do! So you can't win.

I've been called worse than Karen. Cunt, for instance. But sexist, woman blaming language always gets a hard no from me.

It's another way for men to erase the views of women who they think are too old to be worthy of sexual attention, so have no interest in listening to.

x-posted with famous

I agree with Morris

Karen is a word for a middle aged woman, normally a mother, its used to put 'karen' in her place, belittle her opinions. In my generation in the UK the opinion would be MN is full of Karens.

You see it on this thread, Karen is a term that has basically been used to describe a stereotype of woman we judge or dislike. The woman with 5 kids and 5 different dads, the nosy-neighbour, the anti-vaxxer, the hyacinth bucket, the working class woman who dared to have money. Karen has fullfilled so many negative stereotypes on this thread alone.

Its just another misogonistic word really. It doesnt matter its origins, in the UK it is now just a term used to put any women deemed unacceptable in some way in her place

The same person who rolls their eyes at MN, is the same person who calls a woman a Karen. The same person who uses 'boomer' to dismiss a middle aged womans opinion.

Spot on Chubby.

And the same people probably refer to any woman past middle age as an 'old biddy'.

"I can't think of a single perjorative term used for women (bitch, harridan, slag, shrill, witch, cunt, homewrecker, bossy, head girl, know it all, pushy, strident, etc etc and now god help me the name my feminist mother chose for me with love, Karen) that has anything remotely like a male equivalent."

Gammon. Fuckboy. A David Brent. Soyboy. Cuck. Love rat. Wanker.
Dickhead. There you go.

You are right to fight against pejorative names. But this isn't about picking on people. It's about people who usually go out of their way to pick on us. They are very real, very vocal, very in your face, very self righteous, very aggressive - and if this type of behaviour doesn't warrant any type of blowback or legpulling then what do you suggest? Because one thing a Karen is not and that's a victim - and her victims tend to be children, teenagers and other women.

I had never heard of Karen being used as an insult until I read it on MN.

There were two Karens in my primary school class. They both had the same birthday :) The father of one was a plumber/heating engineer and the other ran a B&B. Is that "lower middle class"?

Anyway I would take it as an insult for a middle-aged woman of a certain age given my experience of the age group with that name. I also have a friend now called Karen and she's 3 weeks younger than I am.

Why are people so blind to class prejudice? Why is the world so often seen only through the lens of race or sex?

Americanisation.

The whole 'Karen' meme is an American thing. Not a British or European or any other thing. American society is very divided on race lines, much more so than any other Western nation. Not saying racism doesn't exist outside of America - obviously it does - just that the American obsession with race cannot be simply superimposed on other societies.

None of those perjoratives for men carry the distain and hatred that the women's ones do.

David Brent? I've never seen this used as an insult but if it was, it would mean 'hilariously nobbish boss'. Its not a hate term.

Love rat is used exclusively by crap newspapers and again, confers no hatred when compared with commonly used words for women with questionable sex lives, such as slut.

A good way of testing how hate filled and demeaning a term is, is to imagine it being applied to your parents or your siblings.

'DON'T YOU DARE CALL MY DAD A LOVE RAT' said no one ever.

Karen = white feminist. White women benefit from white supremacy.

Don’t think most of you get the meme. It’s literally a word to describe those bitchy woman who love to complain about everything and always want to speak to the manager

I have twice tweeted that the use of a common name is a ridiculous way to describe someone in a derrogative way. I have 2 Karens in my family and it makes me angry when people use it in this way. All the poor genuine Karens out there.

The video of Amy Cooper calling the police whilst out with her dog: I have seen many FB posts from Brits describing her as a "Karen".

@VenusTiger anyone reading those tweets in all honesty will just think that’s such a Karen thing to say

What some people on this thread just can't seem to get their head around is that the minute you give a name to a particular group of people, and start generalising about their behaviours, you are stereotyping. Stereotyping is the beginning of racism, sexism, classicism, etc. I know this kind of stereotyping is used a lot in comedy and it often does capture a truth, something we have experienced in society ourselves. But it is always dangerous because its corollary is the above. So I am against these memes because I seem them as propagating the very type of stereotyping we are trying to overcome.