AIBU - 'Karen' is about class, why are people so class-blind?

[Beancounter1]

AIBU to hate the way people confuse racism and sexism with class prejudice? To my mind, the use of the insult 'Karen', especially popular in the USA, doesn't just mean a middle-aged white woman who is arrogant, self-righteous, self absorbed, complaining, trouble-making, full-of-herself, etc. etc.
It means a middle or upper class woman with these characteristics. You won't see a working class 'Karen'. The stereotypical 'Karen' behaves as she does because she is on a power trip. Her social class advantage has gone to her head. That is why she complains in restaurants and is rude to shop assistants.
Why are people so blind to class prejudice? Why is the world so often seen only through the lens of race or sex? Is it because the powers-that-be (the 'elite') have a vested interest in deflecting and forestalling any class-based collective action or class consciousness? We are not encouraged to talk or think about class, but it is as significant as ever.

Karen is definitely a classist and sexist insult but is definitely NOT an upper or even middle class name.
Maybe the trope highlights women who aspire to middle /upper middle class

Either way, it's a vile insult and it's a classless way to silence women for having opinions.

To those hoping it doesn't take off in the UK : where have you been?! Its everywhere. My primary school aged daughter even described someone as having 'a karen haircut' the other day.
In my eyes it's the same kind of people using Karen as an insult as the ones who are still saying 'fuck you carole baskin' or even worse: 'simples'

This is the most ridiculous thread full of Karen’s I’ve ever seen.
Karen was created and used (primarily in the US but also applies in the UK) to describe a specific racist kind of white woman.
I think saying it is classist is ridiculous, your trying to claim discrimination when the meme itself is used to call out discriminatory behaviours in white women. “ The term ‘Karen’ is not equivalent to a racial slur because it is not propped up by a system of racism against white people,” “Categorizing the ‘Karen’ meme as a slur is misleading because it obscures the racial discrimination the meme was designed to call out”
It isn’t sexist because it’s not oppressing women, it’s calling out women who think it’s okay to treat other people badly because of their own sense of self importance.
Maybe if you find this meme offensive it’s because you are a Karen and instead of identifying your own problematic behaviours it’s easier to get defensive and claim discrimination. With everything that’s going on in the world right now a thread like this is so tone deaf.

*Really? I opened this post thinking you were going to say Karen is a byword for working class women with a lot to say and little to back it up. That’s how I read the meme anyway.
*
Exactly this. To me Karen voted Tory and to leave despite working for minimum wage on a zero hour contract and has live laugh love all over her home. I've never seen any suggestion to what you've written

I also don't get the age thing. Most Karen's I know are in their 40's

I don't think Karen is about class at all. It's about attitude. It's a demographic of middle aged women who think they have made it in life and look down on those in retail serving them, presuming that they have not made it and therefore treat them as lesser beings.

I work in retail, and sadly it is true.

The younger women and the older women simply do not display the same attitude towards us, neither do the men.

I'm not from the UK or US. It looks ridiculous to me see you all objecting to a meme which judges women and be discussing if the name is middle or working class

I've now read this thread from start to finish and still have no idea what anybody is talking about 😞 Am I missing something as I'm not on Facebook, etc?

I don't think the sweeping comments about 'middle aged women' are helpful in this discussion. It's stereotyping, and while I understand the stereotype is not coming from the same place as a racial slur, that doesn't mean it's fine to apply it.

@midnightstar66

Because it’s a reach. If you look at social media Karen’s are 35-45, Becky is her daughter and Susan is her mum. They all describe the type of women that call the police on a young black girl selling water on the street, having a BBQ in a park or trying to get into your apartment building. Although the permit woman was coined “permit Patty”

In the UK they describe the women at work that constantly ask black women about their hair, if they can touch it, do they wash it? Intentionally mispronounce names then joke about it, use subjects in the news to “you lot” us and generally go out of their way to draw attention to differences to make the minority feel uncomfortable in a subtle way that can be difficult to make a fuss about as a one off but as a constant pattern of behaviour its pretty tiring and alienating. Karen was just a shorthand for this behaviour here.

@chajazam are you for real? You think there are women in the UK so bedazzled by these black women they’ve never seen before that they want to touch their hair? How utterly, incredibly offensive.

I never heard the term 'Karen' before I saw it on Mumsnet a couple of weeks ago, so I haven't yet formed an opinion about it. I do dislike stereotypes, though, as we're all individuals, so my instinctive reaction is to be unimpressed by it.

From what has been said on here, it was originally used by a man on Reddit to insult his ex, but then adopted by the black community in the US to call out racist attitudes in white women. So it does answer the question I've had of why the name Karen?

@phoebesphalange

Yes that’s exactly what I’m saying, of course! They are astounded by the beauty of their hair!

Or maybe I’m speaking from personal experience and the experience of friends. What I’ve described is continually pointing out differences which is alienating , they are not really compliments. One of my friends was in a situation recently where yet another hair conversation ended up having a colleague “jokingly” ask if she put her hair in the washing machine or took it to the dry cleaners but hey, keep on making it about you rather than do a quick google on what I’ve mentioned.

She’s worked there for 10 years and was humiliated and in tears but like I said, make it about you.

That’s really not what the Karen meme is about in the UK but you twist it how you like.

You’re talking about ignorant racists. Entirely different.

Also how am I making it about me?

Gareth is the insulting name to call a bloke.

I thought a Karen was a female gammon?

chajazam Sadly, I think you are right. I’ve come across plenty who behave as in the second paragraph you wrote. Not amongst the more educated at work but it’s fairly classless - talking about ‘them’, making huge assumptions based on skin colour and laughing in a nervous tinkling sort of way at Boris’s watermelon comments.

The whole Karen thing passed me by, I 1st saw it referenced on MN actually. But I assumed from the description that it was an insult to lower class middle aged women who were now ‘middle class’ in terms of their wealth but not in their demeanour or level of education etc. So yes, a very classist based insult but I think that might be more of a UK based interpretation based on the stereotypes here of someone called Karen with that haircut. I’m not sure it translates too well from the states where it obviously has a different meaning.

@phoebesphalange Black women being asked if someone can touch their hair is one of the most common microaggressions they face - I'm not sure why you're so disbelieving that it happens?

I am a Karen and I literally don’t fit any of the stereotypes at all and have never heard of the Karen meme until today!

Although going through this thread I’m still not entirely sure what a ‘Karen’ is or how is should be behaving

@phoebesphalange

Ignorant racists? I’m not sure they would describe or see themselves like that, they might have a black friend or like Bob Marley and they just see it as having a laugh. What I’m saying is that this is what the Karen meme evolved into as shorthand for describing low level behaviour like this. As a one off you could be told you are playing the race card or your colleague could start to cry as that is NOT what they meant and they would never be racist. I would never meet a woman called Karen and make any assumptions but if a friend said someone at work was a “Karen” I would know what she meant.

After my friend complained colleagues she had been close to stopped speaking to her. She works at a finance company in the city.

Anyhow I have a busy work day and can’t spend time debating this all day. Maybe have a quick google on the issue.

I’m a bit oblivious to the whole Karen thing - other than to know it’s an insult and must be mightily annoying to actual Karens.

I have just googled ‘Karen haircut’. I have a gym friend with that exact (terrible) ‘do’!

In the UK they describe the women at work that constantly ask black women about their hair, if they can touch it, do they wash it? Intentionally mispronounce names then joke about it, use subjects in the news to “you lot” us and generally go out of their way to draw attention to differences to make the minority feel uncomfortable in a subtle way that can be difficult to make a fuss about as a one off but as a constant pattern of behaviour its pretty tiring and alienating. Karen was just a shorthand for this behaviour here.

I have never seen Karen used in a race related way in the U.K. - it's more as PP have described - someone with ideas above their station. I think it's agesist and sexist too

I have actually seen a change in the 'karen' videos and memes.

'Karen' has been appearing in a lot of BLM showing white allies acting how they should. Speaking out, stepping in.

I have also seen alot of 'Karen or Jeremy' posts. It seems men are getting their own.

Its not great. It is an insult. But there has been a change in tone, imo.