Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

You're white. You haven't experienced racism

999 replies

PatricksRum · 04/06/2020 00:29

I'm so sick of repeating myself today.
AIBU or is ignorance just bliss?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
TeenyQueen · 04/06/2020 09:14

Racism is rooted in power structures where white people have almost all political, financial and legal power. How many UK judges or barristers are non-white? How many top police officers are non-white? How many top politicians are non-white?

FYI I'm white and in a mixed race marriage, mother of a mixed race child.

IHateCoronavirus · 04/06/2020 09:14

The title of this thread is meant to divide. The op herself opened up a debate which shifted the focus way from BLM.
A better title would have been “Black Lives Matter can we all work together to make a change?” if the OP really wanted to focus on the BLM movement. She would have received positivity and support from the vast majority of people on this thread.

However on the theme of can white people experience racism...
From the op’s own google search:
“When someone tells you that you’ve said something offensive or racist, they are often trying to tell you that what you’ve said has caused them pain. Blanket denial (‘that wasn’t racist’) is not a great way to respond. If you accidentally kick someone and they say, “you kicked me,” do you say “no I didn’t?” Most likely, even if you didn’t realize that you did it, you would apologize. That’s the best way to handle accusations of racism. Apologize, knowing that you are biased and you probably do make assumptions based on race or gender or any number of other factors. Then, reflect. What did you say that caused them to react the way you did? Perhaps that person did you a favor by making you aware of an unconscious bias.

A few years back, I used the term “paddy wagon” in conversation. One man in the group said, “That’s actually a racist phrase and you might want to stop using it.” I promise you that my first instinct was to say, “I’m not racist!” Instead, I said I had no idea it was offensive, asked him some questions, and learned that “paddy” is a slur once used to describe people from Ireland, and police vehicles were often called paddy wagons because the stereotype was that Irish people were criminals or policemen.”

So as many people have said through their own accounts white people can suffer racism. Does that mean that we shouldn’t be all standing together and fighting for black lives? Hell no. Black lives matter.

Pinklynx · 04/06/2020 09:14

Brilliant post @mathanxiety

wafflyversatile · 04/06/2020 09:15

Not at all denying the difficulties and racism that black Europeans experience. But I'd be wary of seeing it from an American lens - that wont help us with our own particular difficulties and nuances.

The OP is british. she lives racism through a UK lens, ffs.

Some podcasts for anyone willing to learn about the Black British experience.
www.bustle.com/p/podcasts-about-the-black-british-experience-race-in-the-uk-22949227

AtrociousCircumstance · 04/06/2020 09:16

Prosper - that's your takeaway from this? That's your point? That issues trend?

Wow. Ok. You focus on that then.

Snaketime · 04/06/2020 09:17

I haven't RTFT but I just wanted to say that until recently I was one who got angered at black lives matter because I firmly believe ALL lives matter, but after the recent horrific events I have educated myself a bit more and understand, of course all lives matter, but disgustingly some people (and yes white people) don't believe that black lives matter and until everyone understands that black lives do matter, then we will never be able to say all lives matter. I agree with you OP and I think YANBU, I am so sorry that it has taken recent events for me to educate myself more, I still have a lot more to learn, but I stand with you and promise to educate myself more and to educate my children to be better and believe that Black lives matter so that we can truly come to a place where all lives do matter.

MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing · 04/06/2020 09:20

Racism is rooted in power structures where white people have almost all political, financial and legal power...

Not all "White People." There is a social-class angle to this.

Kwasi Kwarteng and Me, one of us is priviliged, and I know which it is.

TheClitterati · 04/06/2020 09:20

The C4 show might for you. But lots of interviews and videos of Jane Elliot on YT.

Here she in on Oprah in 1992:

TheClitterati · 04/06/2020 09:20

The C4 show might NOT BE for you

SporadicNamechange · 04/06/2020 09:23

I really don’t think threads like this help anything. For at least 3 reasons:

  1. You’re selecting one particular experience of racism and insisting that it’s the only kind of racism. Sure, white British people will never experience the kinds of racism that African Americans do. But that’s not the only kind of racism possible.
  1. Linked to this, loads of white ethnic groups experience racism. Irish travellers for example are subject to persistent and well documented racism in the uk. It’s ridiculous to claim that’s not the case.
  1. It’s not always the case that white people are the dominant race. White people can experience outright racism in, for example, Japan or South Korea. Try getting a taxi at night in Seoul as a white person (it’s a well documented issue that the government are trying to address). Sure, it’s contextually different (which really matters) but it is still racism.

Note that none of these is if the ‘well a black person was a bit mean and, therefore, racist to me on train in Luton once’ type of response, that many people are trying to counteract.

So maybe we could discuss the specific issues faced by black communities (and consider the ways in which there are differences between racism in the UK and USA, because the specificities of context do matter) rather than resorting to huge over-generalisations.

Mittens030869 · 04/06/2020 09:23

Yes, It's true that Asian men can and do treat white women badly. But I think that's more about misogyny and not race. Men like that treat Asian women badly too, with forced child marriage and so-called 'honour killings'. They've been taught that women are lesser human beings and it's the men who dominate.

It really isn't the same as racism. And we're back with 'whataboutery' again. Why is it that some people try so hard to prove that white people suffer too? It's the same as when men join threads where women are talking about their experiences of rape, sexual assault and DV and keep telling us that men suffer from that too.

TheClitterati · 04/06/2020 09:23

A better title would have been “Black Lives Matter can we all work together to make a change?”

So go ahead and start that thread @Ihatecoronavirus.

Like every other MNer the OP can start whatever bloody thread she wants.

walkingchuckydoll · 04/06/2020 09:23

So far I've read that white people should shut up, not ask questions, just google (because google is so accurate Confused), not debate about racism, not demonstrate against racism.

Honestly, do you really think that something will change this way? That if only black people are allowed to demonstrate and not educate, not explain that suddenly white people will get it and change the world?

I get that it's exhausting and frustrating, but I don't see another way that will work.

FairNotFair · 04/06/2020 09:23

YANBU, OP

In addition to those who've recommended the book "Why I'm no longer talking to white people about race", I would also suggest Michael Eric Dyson's book "Tears we cannot stop: a sermon to white America".

RandomUser3049 · 04/06/2020 09:24

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

merrymouse · 04/06/2020 09:24

I think the OP would be more accurate if it said

"You are white, you have never experienced the systematic racism experienced over centuries by black people".

Otherwise it's a bit like saying to a man "you are a man, you have never experienced sexism", when men do experience sexism, but not to the life limiting, overwhelming extent that women do.

RickOShay · 04/06/2020 09:24

I’m white and lived in an Asian country where I experienced racial discrimination, but I have never and will never experience racism, because I belong to the race of the oppressors.
It’s enough now. @PatricksRum I’m not surprised you are tired.

Purplephonecover · 04/06/2020 09:25

I’ve lived in parts of London where I have experienced racism and racist bullying towards me, after several years I moved. Does that mean that you need to educate me or do I pass?

TabbyMumz · 04/06/2020 09:27

"What can white people do to stop racism if they don’t see it? Large parts of the UK are predominantly white so may be unlikely to witness racism.
For instance a village in Devon or Cornwall.
If people are racist that is their failure, you can’t blame the entire white population."

I agree. I havent seen any racism by me, and havent really for about 25 years. It just doesnt happen. Not in the workplace either.

MagicKingdomDizzy · 04/06/2020 09:28

When I ask what I can do to help, I usually get "Educate yourself, don't expect black people to do it for you!" shouted at me.

So I go away, research, read whatever I can find, then come back to rejoin the conversation and invariably get shouted at for reading the wrong stuff.

I am white and willing to do what I can to help the black people's cause.

Changing institutionalised racism requires the cooperation of white people, it's a horrible truth, and shouldn't be the case, but shouting at white people who are trying, and have good intentions isn't the way to do this.

Chillipeanuts · 04/06/2020 09:28

I used to work for a high profile, black public figure. I’m white and received unprovoked abuse from black callers and visitors on many occasions, they had expected to be received by black staff. My employer wouldn’t tolerate it and they were given short shrift. I was employed because I was the most suitably qualified applicant at the time.

Dyrne · 04/06/2020 09:28

And we're back with 'whataboutery' again. Why is it that some people try so hard to prove that white people suffer too? It's the same as when men join threads where women are talking about their experiences of rape, sexual assault and DV and keep telling us that men suffer from that too.

No, this thread would be the equivalent to someone starting a thread saying “Men cannot be raped or experience sexism”. Now, how do you think that thread would go?

SuckingDieselFella · 04/06/2020 09:29

@Mittens030869

Yes, It's true that Asian men can and do treat white women badly. But I think that's more about misogyny and not race. Men like that treat Asian women badly too, with forced child marriage and so-called 'honour killings'. They've been taught that women are lesser human beings and it's the men who dominate.

It really isn't the same as racism. And we're back with 'whataboutery' again. Why is it that some people try so hard to prove that white people suffer too? It's the same as when men join threads where women are talking about their experiences of rape, sexual assault and DV and keep telling us that men suffer from that too.

So anyone who points out that white people suffer racism is the equivalent of a rapist?

This thread just gets dafter.

00100001 · 04/06/2020 09:30

I am white and have experienced racism....

...sorry

CandyLeBonBon · 04/06/2020 09:31

Racism, prejudice, demonisation, racial discrimination are all different parts of an overall problem and they do have differing effects and outcomes. I do believe that defining racism as prejudice + power frames it differently because it has a wider reaching and deeper impact than 'just' prejudice which whilst deeply unpleasant and abhorrent MAY be something that is temporary, can be escaped from (based on examples in this thread). I actually think it's important to define and hone these words and their meaning so that we can all understand the problem in greater depth. It's true that white people can experience racial discrimination, prejudice and demonisation but I still don't believe that white people experience racism in the sense that the world's power structure in the west is structured by and around powerful men. So whilst racial bias and bigotry on a local level against white people is possible, racism on a society level isn't.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.