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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

You're white. You haven't experienced racism

999 replies

PatricksRum · 04/06/2020 00:29

I'm so sick of repeating myself today.
AIBU or is ignorance just bliss?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
ProsperTheBear · 04/06/2020 08:43

I'm so fucking sick of having to defend the fact that I'm white.
you don't have to!

you can safely ignore inflammatory posts from people like the OP and get on with your life, there's always uneducated or just shit-stirring people everywhere. (It's an anonymous forum btw...)

The people who are groaning and holding their heads are black people who are trying to pass on a message and whose efforts are being smashed by silly statements.

A little bit like women cringing when self-proclaimed feminists are shouting being exactly the opposite of feminists.

AtrociousCircumstance · 04/06/2020 08:43

IamLarge but that’s so myopic, it’s not just about you pootling along thinking you’re a nice person - it’s about history, politics, society, the reality of black people being murdered by representatives of the white establishment. How can you focus on what you’re ‘sick of’ at a time like this? Do you understand how unbelievably self-absorbed and short-sighted that is?

Neoflex · 04/06/2020 08:43

Isn't the whole point that White people should be experiencing racism. E.g. they should be opening their eyes to it.
The white police officers who were watching as that man was suffocated in front of them DID experience racism but they stood by and did nothing because they didn't want to admit they were part of that experience.
If you acknowledge you experience racism as a white person then you can acknowledge your role in that to do something against it.
Rather, it's more appropriate to say that whites are not the targeted victims of racism and more needs to be done to get people to acknowledge this experience in order to act against it rather than "this doesn't concern me"

SuckingDieselFella · 04/06/2020 08:44

@Eskarina1

Unfortunately I think the failure to act in Victoria Agoglia's case is more about the assumptions made about teenage girls in care, taking drugs and having sex with older men. The men in the ring were sex abusers exploiting a situation that allowed them to get away with it. They are by no means the only perpetrators. Funny how no one ever refers to white paedophile rings.
Trevor Phillips disagrees with you.

Funny you haven't heard of the white paedophile conspiracy theory propagated by "Nick", Operation Yewtree, the raid on Cliff Richard's house, Harvey Proctor, Leon Brittain or all the other white men who had lies spread about them. I don't understand how you haven't heard of this, seeing as it's been all over the news for years.

TheClitterati · 04/06/2020 08:45

If you want to learn more about racism, from uk perspective you might read the book "why I'm no longer talking to white people about race" by Reni Eddo-Lodge.

You will learn lots and also Understand the OPs exhaustion and frustration better.

SoberCurious · 04/06/2020 08:45

@ILikeyourHairyHands it's not just about YOUR family is it though ?!? Hmm

JediJim · 04/06/2020 08:47

What can white people do to stop racism if they don’t see it? Large parts of the UK are predominantly white so may be unlikely to witness racism.
For instance a village in Devon or Cornwall.
If people are racist that is their failure, you can’t blame the entire white population.

ProsperTheBear · 04/06/2020 08:48

AtrociousCircumstance
How can you focus on what you’re ‘sick of’ at a time like this?

what time like this exactly?

What is new, apart from people jumping on the George Floyd bandwagon because it's the current trending thing to do? Don't get me wrong, I dont' consider it a negative that people finally wake up and maybe something will change. But let's not pretend it's a shockingly new event.
If you suddenly woke up about facts and events you have blissfully chosen to ignore until last week, you are in no position to comment on others.

SuckingDieselFella · 04/06/2020 08:48

@QuentinWinters

I don't think there is a systematic and structural oppression of white Europeans from any state, no. Mainly because I think racist (and sexist) structures rely on quick visual allocation of a person to a group, and this happens subconsciously a lot of the time.

White people from any ethnic origin will be automatically assigned to the group that's not suffering oppression. As will mixed race white passing people and white working class men.

It doesn't mean those people don't have difficulties in their lives. But those aren't caused by racism.

The reason the George Floyd death has been so illustrative is because that just wouldn't happen to a white man from any background. It exposes the power dynamic and yet we are still "oh racism happens to white people too"

Get your head out of your arse. White people aren't being killed on the basis of their skin colour. That's racism.

Complete nonsense.

Of course white people are discriminated against due to "visual allocation" in countries where the majority aren't white. To claim otherwise is a denial of reality. You don't want to acknowledge this because it doesn't suit your argument.

022828MAN · 04/06/2020 08:49

Yeah I have actually. I don't think it's just 'us' that need educating, but thanks for the othering and division, that's what we all need more of right now.

spacecoma · 04/06/2020 08:49

Well, I am as white as you can get. I am also Jewish and I have experienced lots of racism in my life, have seen friends beaten up, have seen worshippers spat on, have bottles and rubbish thrown at them and called names as they walk to synagogue. Have seen my friends and family have to hide their skullcaps (kippahs) or star-of-David necklaces because they know they will get racist abuse if they show them. And these racist incidents are unfortunately not limited to white racists. I went to a Jewish school and most of the kids that came to stand outside the gates and shout racist abuse at us and threaten to beat us up were not white. Racism exists in all cultures and all races sadly, so YABVU!

Persiaclementine · 04/06/2020 08:50

@7Days

Travellers would beg to differ.

I see your point, but it's a bit American - centric.
Europeans have a different history, different ethnic faultlines, different relationships with minorities.

Not at all denying the difficulties and racism that black Europeans experience. But I'd be wary of seeing it from an American lens - that wont help us with our own particular difficulties and nuances.

This
Abbccc · 04/06/2020 08:50

@WendyHoused

OP, I’m not surprised you’re tired. Some of the whataboutery here is maddening.
But what is the purpose of the OP's question then? I thought the point was to discuss racism directed at white people. Do you really believe that nobody has ever been racist against a white person? Or if we are white and have experienced racisim should we just shrug if off and remember that black people are worse off?

If a white person shared their experiences of racism on this thread that doesn't mean that they are saying that black lives don't matter.

Pugsrus · 04/06/2020 08:50

Totally agree ,I’ve not experienced racism,totally agree it needs to stop .i thought we were more progressive,I thought we were in a world where things were getting better ,I have empathy for everyone who is black.i too felt sick to my stomach of the photos of the policeman kneeling on the mans neck.I’m glad the policeman has been charged with murder
I don’t understand the looting ,and the smashing things up ,I understand a protest ,I understand a loud protest ,but smashing up peoples businesses ?looting? Taking people’s stock from their shops ,I don’t understand that ..and I don’t think it’s right

AtrociousCircumstance · 04/06/2020 08:51

No, Prosper I didn’t wake up to it because of what is happening on the media now.

What I meant was the global conversation has a particular profile now.

Hope that makes it easier for you.

Nagsnovalballs · 04/06/2020 08:52

The thing is... if white people have experienced racism/racial prejudice, that should make them more empathetic to the experience of people of colour. But based on the first few pages, it does not: it is just being used as a statement to ignore/belittle or compete with (with concomitant hostile notions of defeating) black experience.

If you are not using your (apparently) equivalent experiences to empathise and mobilise in solidarity, then you have learned nothing.

For example, I cannot know what it is to be a person of colour. However, as a woman, I can see some similarities between the manifestations of misogyny and racism, because both are institutional and structural in nature, as well as insidiously embedded in casual language and socialised behaviours. They are not the same, and white women have all kinds of privilege, but it is a great starting point for understanding and bringing nuance to that understanding that does not rely on people of colour’s emotional or intellectual labour in educating white people. From empathy comes solidarity, from solidarity comes change.

Sometimes, comparisons are effective if simplistic. I got elderly white people to understand the complexities of the n word by comparing it to the c word. Having grown up with children’s books with dogs named that offensive word, they were wilfully resisting the idea that the n word was offensive. Although they agreed it was socially unacceptable to use it, they kept complaining they didn’t understand why and that people are too sensitive these days. So I started using the c word With them, because i personally don’t have an issue with using the c word (won’t go into a spiel about why, unless people would like me to!) but knew that they did. It made them rethink their ignorant claim that “the n word is just a word and people shouldn’t be offended by it”. I recommend this tactic with any wilfully ignorant elderly white person. It really made them understand it at last, when all my attempts to explain racialised discourse and the history of aggression and oppression associated with the word had failed.

changiemynamie · 04/06/2020 08:53

@QuentinWinters can you explain what you mean when you said this upthread?

but the structures and systems aren't in place to oppress us in the way they are for black people

I'm white and I'm learning but I would never have thought there were actual structures and systems in place to oppress black people in the UK, can you explain further and give some examples of what you mean?

Valkadin · 04/06/2020 08:53

I’m not white, people do not have to feel guilty for being white. Whatever DNA jumble we all got from our ancestors was not a choice or decision made by any of us. I hate racism I have experienced it directly in my face.

AlexisCarringtonColbyDexter · 04/06/2020 08:54

For example, I cannot know what it is to be a person of colour. However, as a woman, I can see some similarities between the manifestations of misogyny and racism, because both are institutional and structural in nature, as well as insidiously embedded in casual language and socialised behaviours. They are not the same, and white women have all kinds of privilege, but it is a great starting point for understanding and bringing nuance to that understanding that does not rely on people of colour’s emotional or intellectual labour in educating white people. From empathy comes solidarity, from solidarity comes change

SO well said. With regards to mysiogyny, it would irritate the heck out of me to have to listen to a man blather on about how he has also experienced sexism because its NOT the same. Its not the same at all so I understand how insulting it is.

UntamedWisteria · 04/06/2020 08:54

I am the epitome of white privilege.

I am totally with you on this OP.

Keep on fighting. Keep spreading the message. One day we can hope for a better, more just world.

CommunistLegoBloc · 04/06/2020 08:55

OP you are entirely correct. I'm sorry that the absolute idiots on this site (and way beyond) are still fighting you and making this even harder. They're racist to their core and they don't even know it. They'll be the ones saying 'we all matter, I love everyone, I don't even see skin' without realising how damaging they are. Racism isn't all lynchings and slurs. It's being part of and benefitting from oppressive system and doing absolutely nothing to correct that imbalance or denying your privilege completely.

wafflyversatile · 04/06/2020 08:56

I'm white and I'm learning but I would never have thought there were actual structures and systems in place to oppress black people in the UK, can you explain further and give some examples of what you mean?

Try the audio book why I'm no longer talking to white people about race. I think it's free for a few days. I was a bit put off by the title to be honest but I got over myself.

Chloemol · 04/06/2020 08:56

@PatricksRum
Definition of racism

Racism is the belief that groups of humans possess different behavioral traits corresponding to physical appearance and can be divided based on the superiority of one race over another. It may also mean prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against other people because they are of a different race or ethnicity

Therefore racism is possible against anyone of any colour, and yes as a white person I have suffered from racism. I am sorry you dont believe that that is possible, but it is.

bubblev · 04/06/2020 08:58

I agree that it's problematic viewing only through an American lens. Obviously black people experience racism in the UK & unfair treatment from the police. I think Polish & Romanian people experience racism too.

Rose789 · 04/06/2020 08:58

*potter5

Lee Right was murdered by two black men.
Just saying.*

Presumably you are referring to Lee Rigby.

You're white. You haven't experienced racism
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