You're white. You haven't experienced racism

[PatricksRum]

I'm so sick of repeating myself today.
AIBU or is ignorance just bliss?

[quote PatricksRum]@savingallday Regardless of the country you are in. You hold the power worldwide.
We have no power over you hence the inability to experience racism. Racial prejudice yes 100%, racism no.[/quote]
That’s the point where the theory goes over the line into fantasy. You can’t really believe that Zimbabwe or Japan are white supremacist societies.

Isn’t it easier just to stick to the main point of the current protests, which is that the US is an inherently racist society and suffers under institutionally racist policing?

Alternatively, to stick to a wider point. That racism is still far too prevalent and embedded in society and is always wrong.

We can all agree on that and that’s what needs urgent change.

Travellers are recognised as a minority ethnic group in Ireland. They are not called ethnic Irish.
In the UK they are recognised as a minority ethnic group.
And in Northern Ireland they are recognised as a 'distinct racial group

Iriah Travellers are not the same ethnic group as Roma/Romany.

They are a group within the broader Irish ethnic group. This is recognised because they have remained distinct through inter marriage and living an itinerant separate lifestyle over a long period of Irish history.

They are not however "ethnic gypsies"

[quote PatricksRum]@CayrolBaaaskin Racism is racial prejudice + power.
We, as ethnic minorities, know you hold the power. You enslaved us. You still do. You hold all the keys.
I'm truly sorry that your white supremecy is preventing you from seeing reality.[/quote]
Exactly this.

@NotNowPlzz

Anyone coming on here to 'defend' white people and share your stories of racism, you're part of the problem. And the people sharing examples of 'racism' against white people in SA and certain other places is BEYOND a joke. The racial aggression toward whites in those areas is as a result of white atrocities committed there. People of colour in many places are extremely wary of white people, even though there are good white people out there. Just like many women are very wary of men. Because of the terrible history of white atrocity.

What we are witnessing in America is terrible white atrocity now, before our very eyes. This is part of a pattern of white atrocity that has been going on for 400 years.

There is NOT a level playing field. Come and talk about your experiences of racism when you're afraid for your children each time they go out, or you're wary of travelling or relocating because you might be ostracised or even attacked, or you're followed around shops every week, and people constantly expect and communicate you'll amount to nothing because of the colour of your skin. Where you're afraid of the police killing you while you go jogging or sleeping at home or walking home from work.

Yes some white people have unpleasant experiences because of their skin colour. But your whole life is not defined by it, you're not constantly on edge, wondering who will next deny your humanity even though they're smiling in your face today. And even if you're in a country facing racist acts toward you as a white person you know you can go somewhere else where you'll be fine.

OP is showing you a gaping wound and saying she's hurt more than you. You're jumping on and saying BUT I GOT A SCRATCH IN 1992 WHAT ABOUT MEEEEE...

This is not about you. Stop making it about you. Educate yourself on the atrocities of the white race that continue to this day.

This is not a debate. Do not argue OPs semantics. This is not about your feelings. Innocent people are being murdered. Wake up wake up WAKE UP

Great post 👏

There has been an unbelievable amount of racism on here the past week or so. Op, I really do feel for you. However, your fighting racism with racism 🤷‍♀️ Lately a white person cant say anything at all (some posters) are just attacking if they don’t agree 100%. I saw the same poster refer to herself as a POC, then I saw that same poster go bat shit crazy at a white poster for using POC 🤷‍♀️

I am with you 100%, can I just say, as a white person, I’m being very careful. This is your fight, to gain equality. I will stand by you every step of the way when you need me, if you can’t speak for yourself I will speak for you. But as a white person I need to keep myself in check, to not talk over you & claim this fight as my own & take your wins for you!! I hope I make sense with this. I’m trying to say, white people, we need to support black people but don’t take over

Although London banks funded it and the British economy benefited from it considerably

How considerably is disputed by historians

Britain's wealth was mostly built on industrialisation.

‘I do believe the majority in both the US and the UK want a less racist society and as much as I have encountered racism at all class levels of British and American society, I do think we seem to be coming to a time of reckoning where people want profound change.’

I can’t comment on the US, but that is not my experience in the U.K. Britain seems to me to have become massively more racist over the last twenty years. It has changed beyond all recognition.

@LipsyGirl Lately a white person cant say anything at all

They can, if it's educated and non racist. The sad fact is that white supremacy is insidious, we're all infected with it, and this makes us blind. The best thing to do, as you've said, is keep yourself in check and listen.

Unfortunately many white people are very quick to open their mouths to defend any single comment about white people, while wilfully ignoring the actual issues.

Most of this thread is people thinking they are engaging, while actually avoiding the point in question. The white race is terrified to look in a mirror. Dreadfully afraid to turn back a page in the history book. When really that is the only way to truth.

If white people are moral, good people, they will accept they are infected with white supremacy by dint of a western upbringing, and work to eradicate white supremacy from their minds and hearts. They will put black lives over white feelings.

Come and talk about your experiences of racism when you're afraid for your children each time they go out, or you're wary of travelling or relocating because you might be ostracised or even attacked, or you're followed around shops every week, and people constantly expect and communicate you'll amount to nothing because of the colour of your skin. Where you're afraid of the police killing you while you go jogging or sleeping at home or walking home...

In living memory Irish catholics from NI saw their children being killed in the street by plastic bullets, experienced prejudice in jobs, housing etc and witnessed indiscriminate murders of people just going about their business where police colluded with the murderers. All this on the basis of well documented historic oppression.

I appreciate that this wasn't on the basis of skin colour, still pretty grim so perhaps best not to write off discrimination against Irish people.

@cantarina I am not writing it off. There are no words to even describe the horror. But we are talking about black people dying right now.

Britain's wealth was mostly built on industrialisation.

From 1750 onwards a new industry emerged in Britain - the production of cotton cloth. Wool production had previously been Britain's major industry, but cotton had one key advantage - machinery could process cotton fibres better than wool.

As a result it was in cotton production that the industrial revolution began, particularly in and around Manchester. The cotton used was mostly imported from slave plantations. Slavery provided the raw material for industrial change and growth.

The growth of the Atlantic economy was an integral part of the growth of exports - for example manufactured cotton cloth was exported to Africa.

The Atlantic economy can be seen as the spark for the biggest change in modern economic history. The Atlantic economy in the 1700s was founded on slave labour.

Reference: BBC Bitesize History: Importance of the Slave Trade to the British Economy.

@notnowpizz. I get that. We are. And I hate whataboutery. However let's be careful that we don't dismiss everyone else's experience as not worthy - that's how we get into this mess of people not seeing prejudice.

Most of this thread is people thinking they are engaging, while actually avoiding the point in question.

Not really. Its mostly a thread with an entirely incorrect inflammatory title with an aggressive op who doesnt want to talk she just wants to insult those nasty white evil people whilst yelling at them to educate themselves and then refusing to say what they should be educated in. On the one hand she says its not her job to educate white people but then says white people need to shut up and listen to black people. Which is a bit counter productive if shes saying we should listen but its not her job to tell so who are we listening to if not the person who started this thread?

She could have made any point she wanted. She could talk about her feelings her sadness her fear for her children. She could speak about what she wants people to do and how she wants people to change. Instead she chose to make up her own definition of a word and make a sweeping racial generalisation against people and told them to shut up and not retaliate.

Reference: BBC Bitesize History: Importance of the Slave Trade to the British Economy.

Come on now. I’m sure the economic benefits of slavery were substantial, but you can’t list BBC bite size as an academic reference!

@NotNowPlzz

Yes we are talking about black people dying right now that it the focus.

However if some black people try to erase those horrors by claiming no white person has every experienced people have every right to make sure their experiences aren't being erased. They should however, not bring it up unless someone is trying to erase it.

The most similar example I can think of is the holocaust. We can all agree Jews were disproportionately affected, persecuted and murdered by this. If a Jewish person is talking about how the holocaust, their experience or the memory of it affects them, it is everyone else's job to listen to their pain. However if this person says Jews were the only ones persecuted in the holocaust a gay man has every right to say 'actually, gay people were persecuted and murdered too'. They are not allowed to take away from the Jews experiences or pain, and once they've mentioned it they should go back to listening because Jews were disproportionately affected far more, but they are allowed to make sure their experiences and pain aren't erased by someone else sharing theirs, whilst still acknowledging that the others pain is far greater than their own.

Arrietty good thing this is not an academic discussion and a thread on MN then!

If you want to claim the BBC is teaching our population lies about the industrial revolution and its direct link to slavery feel free.

@NotNowPlzz I agree with you, but my comment regarding the poster using POC to describe herself then ripping someone a second arsehole for using it, just shows some people are looking for a fight. But I do understand why, all this damage has been done, as a white person who is more than willing to support black lives matter, I don’t expect to offer my support & receive forgiveness. Some people will never forgive, they are hurting too much. I speak for myself, as a white person Living in the UK I can never understand how it feels to be punished for my skin colour. I can’t imagine how angry & hurt black people are. I hope more laws are brought in to protect you, I hope you see us white people do care about black people. We will fight for you

💯!!! White people have no fucking idea

@cantarina there is a huge distinction between going through oppression as an Irish person vs. being called a 'white bitch' by Priscilla in 1996. The issue is that many white people seem to think that their Priscilla incidents somehow hold any weight in comparison with real oppression. Many white people do not realise or acknowledge that black people are oppressed to this day. No one's experience is relevant here unless to EMPATHISE.

We do not get into the mess of not seeing prejudice by white people's experiences not being validated. We get into the mess of not seeing prejudice by black people's experiences not being validated.

It’s conversations like this that make me feel white women are not allies to black people or minorities. And why in so many feminist spaces BAME women are sidelined to prioritise the needs of white women.

Anyone who thought it was a good use of their time to compare being murdered by the police to the one time a black man looked at them funny should be ashamed of themselves. And I deeply worry for the BAME people who you work with and think you actually see their problems as real.

@TangibleTuTu

Arrietty good thing this is not an academic discussion and a thread on MN then!

If you want to claim the BBC is teaching our population lies about the industrial revolution and its direct link to slavery feel free.

I did just say that I agree that the economic receipts from slavery were substantial, but I object to you undermining the seriousness of the argument by citing “BBC Bitesize” as a reference. I’m suspicious of your motivation TBH. Better not to attempt to cite a source.

@RyanBergarasTeeth
It's mostly a thread with an entirely incorrect inflammatory title
I don't find it inflammatory.

with an aggressive op
Black women who express sadness and anger are often called aggressive. I don't think she's aggressive. I think she's devastated and scared.

who doesnt want to talk she just wants to insult those nasty white evil people whilst yelling at them to educate themselves and then refusing to say what they should be educated in
I'm white. How do I know what she's talking about and you don't?

On the one hand she says its not her job to educate white people

It's not.

but then says white people need to shut up and listen to black people.
They do.

Which is a bit counter productive if shes saying we should listen but its not her job to tell so who are we listening to if not the person who started this thread?
I don't know, maybe any other black person. Heard of YouTube?

She could have made any point she wanted. She could talk about her feelings her sadness her fear for her children. She could speak about what she wants people to do and how she wants people to change.
Don't tell an oppressed person how to process their emotions as a result of oppression.

instead she chose to make up her own definition of a word
She did not make it up, it's been in use for a while now. Obviously you have not been educating yourself...

and make a sweeping racial generalisation against people and told them to shut up and not retaliate.
Why would you 'retaliate'? Are you in a fight against black people, sticking up for the white race?

@ArriettyJones it being BBC Bitesize only serves to illustrate it's basic information that even children should know. Perhaps you could go over there and brush up on your UK history knowledge? It seems woefully lacking.

@missyoumuch Anyone who thought it was a good use of their time to compare being murdered by the police to the one time a black man looked at them funny should be ashamed of themselves.

100%

@changeitupagain I agree with your point but here's the issue.

They are not allowed to take away from the Jews experiences or pain, and once they've mentioned it they should go back to listening because Jews were disproportionately affected far more

This isn't what's happening in many cases.