To be appalled at the amount of people who think school staff should be collateral damage.

[Witchcraftandhokum]

This is not a response to teacher basing thread, I know full well that all teachers aren't perfect and all schools have not responded to the Lockdown in the same way. But I'm amazed at some posters in here demanding that things return to normal immediately. I've seen someone promoting a petition demanding that schools reopen with no social distancing and no safety measures. People saying schools should have never closed and people saying that teachers should "just bloody well get on with it".

dontlookbehind

Fair point

Is this another- some people don’t have correct protect so no one should have it thread?

Key workers who have been at work throughout- nurses, doctors, transport workers and care assistants- have been dying at a much higher rate than the rest of the population. It is a disgrace.

Do you wonder why teaching staff are terrified? Have some fucking compassion.

Everyone working in the frontline with large numbers of the general public needs full and comprehensive PPE.

The school in our nearest town lost a teacher last week to corona. Once the schools open again there will be more. What will your child do for an education once their teachers are hospitalised or dead?

Again, the government have declared that ppe is not necessary in schools... Yet there are so many vulnerable people about to return there in their thousands...

Should the conversation shift from

Open , not open schools
To .....
if we open - which we probably will let’s explore the most effective measures and PPE ?

The conversation needs to be 'how can we educate children and provide as much of the additional stuff that schools provide as safely, efficiently and accessibly as possible?'.

For all children and adults who spend time in schools, either learning or working.

This should ideally be a government directed and funded strategy developed in consultation with teaching and auxillary staff unions, parent groups etc.

Realistically, we are looking at some type of part time or blended learning in the autumn term. If a miracle happens, everything goes 'back to normal' great let's crack on, but given the current situation, the govt should be planning now.

Researched-backed transmission minimisation measures, addressing lack of Broadband and tech access esp for secondary aged children, upskilling teachers, TAs and parents about using online platforms.

Learning from what is working in EYFS and KS1 and KS about school routines and practices etc.

I wish I had even a shred of hope that something as constructive as this was happening though.

encouraging study about he lack of spread in schools

That is encouraging but very very small numbers. Let's hope it's the case throughout.

I wonder what age the children were?

That seems to match the case in France, when an infected child who came into contact with over 100 people didn't pass it on to any of them.

but in both France and Korean schools have been closed due infections in the school.

Yes, but my understanding is that was a precautionary measure because people in the school community had tested positive - not because an outbreak was spreading through the school like wildfire.

As has been said. the amount of research in to this is tiny.

The advice we have received via a consultation with union and hospital team was that as adults we were more likely to catch it from another adult than a child.

We are infinitely less at risk than medical staff, carers etc...and less than shop staff who see a huge number of adults every day.

So the advice we had was to maintain distance between staff, and be less concerned about the kids.

Put that way, there is very little reason we shouldn't be open. People have carried on working with other adults throughout.

So whats the solution then? Are we supposed to keep children off school forever? There might never be a vaccine so then what?
This thing about masks isn't relevant. They don't protect the wearer they protect others so it's a bit pointless to keep going on about that.
Other jobs are returning but it's only teachers who need to be worried about safety apperently. Every other job is safe. No that's not the case so why are schools being allowed to kick up a fuss about returning.
So many have worked throughout with no PPE. So many staff have been spat on. Yet they keep going. Children need to go back to school. Now talk of some not returning until November, it's totally ridiculous.
Teachers are not more or less important than anyone else and the schools have had months to prepare for returning.
Oh and I know teachers have been working throughout but being in school with a handful of children really isn't the same as the challenges most other jobs face.

It’s scary for anyone to have to think about going back to work, but there are people who have had no choice but to continue working through all of this - supermarkets, care homes, essential services, public transport, health workers, social workers etc.

What is the alternative? Keep paying furlough to everyone for 5 years until this has gone away and fucked the economy and more people have died from lack of dental care, cancer diagnosis, suicide etc than have died from the virus? It’s not an easy situation but we do need to make steps to get back to normal or at least somewhere close to it. Until schools go back lots of people can’t go back to work, people not going back to work means supporting businesses (cafes/sandwich shops, suppliers etc ) also can’t get started and so on.

Not every other job has PPE and yes they have been expected to get on with it. I don't know why teachers keep going on there has been no indication that schools are returning to normal any time soon.

Apart from the expectation that all Primary children will be in school for a month before the summer holidays!

I would think that teaching is a relatively low risk job, as they are interacting with the same group of pupils every day, compared to someone who is dealing with different members of the public or travelling to work on public transport?

Actually spending time with a group of people in an enclosed space is much higher risk than briefly passing someone (as someone working in a shop would be). The reason public transport is a risk is not because of the number of people so much as that they are together in an enclosed space for a period of time. This is why you shouldn't be visiting people inside their houses. At school, we have 17 people in a room together all day. Soon to be 32 if the guidelines change to bring back all the children as I suspect they will. The only thing we can do to decrease the risk is open the windows.

If any of those people get symptoms of the virus they have to go home and be tested. Until the test comes back positive the rest of the people in the room (any of whom may well by now be infected and contagious) will continue to come into school and share that space with the rest of the "bubble". I know people who have been tested and never had results back, or who have had to wait 2 weeks for the results.

Teachers should have PPE. As should shop workers, carers etc. Of course they should.

Not only are we (I'm a TA not a teacher, this applies to all school staff) not being given any, we are not allowed to use our own.

I’m appalled at the amount of people who think that vulnerable children, cancer patients, the underprivileged and people under 70 should be collateral damage. Because a large number of these people will die, and a huge number of these people will suffer, because of the lockdown measures.

I totally agree.

I am confused when teachers say they 'can't wear PPE' - who says? Who is going to stop you?

My employer.

It's clearly been very very patchy with provision since March with some schools providing very good support and others just a few worksheets. This is really unacceptable and I hope that there is a committee somewhere outlining more detailed guidance for schools because it would seem that it is being interpreted differently.

I agree. The lack of provision from some schools has been shocking. It doesn't need to be live-lessons or Zoom but there needs to be a decent quantity and quality of work being set and there should be feedback for the children even if it is just supplied answers for them to mark their own work.

If the guidance doesn't work who is putting forward why it won't work and how to fix it

The unions were doing a pretty good job of this.

Unfortunately, it isn't possible to force people to listen or act upon it.

I my a a teacher and quite frankly embarrassed by my profession. Thank goodness the supermarket workers or bin men didn’t make this amount of fuss at the start of lockdown. I think all children deserve some education between now and the summer holiday. I wish we were doing the same as Wales.

I'm confused. Welsh schools aren't back at all yet and by the time they are our Primaries will be fully back already.

But just because risk to staff was neglected in the care sector doesn't mean that it's okay for those working in schools to be treated in the same way. Neither is okay, it absolutely isn't.

This.

My point here is that you haven't thought about anyone else in much more dangerous situations over the last 10 weeks.

Have you been living under a rock? There's been a huge furore over lack of PPE for those people! Schools have been using their resources, time and equipment to provide PPE for them. Of course they thought about it.

Teachers at my school have been great but, like every profession, there are always going to be a tiny minority who will be reluctant to work

I'm not reluctant to work, I worked unpaid in the Easter holidays including bank holiday, and I'm back in every day now. I just think that we need to be honest about the risks instead of just dismissing them.

So teachers in this thread if you were all given masks and children expected to wear masks would you be happy returning then ?? Or when numbers are down more ?
I'm just curious as if this is still around in sept what do we do keep them off still ?

I'd like lower numbers and for test, track and trace to be up and running effectively (proven by numbers not by Boris bluster). I see no reason why secondary students and staff shouldn't wear masks given the amount of mixing they have to do every day that would seem eminently sensible.

This thing about masks isn't relevant. They don't protect the wearer they protect others so it's a bit pointless to keep going on about that.
Wearing a mask and a visor, I'd be in a much better position if someone sneezed, coughed or spat on me.

Over 40,000 people have died in the UK from this. Some people would have you think this was still a "it's a mild flu" situation.
There is no way to tell whether you will be one of the ones with mild symptoms or not.

Lots of other sectors haven't returned to the workplace though Rosebel.

Hospitality, leisure, tourism, non-essential retail to name a few. And the vast majority of those jobs can't be done from home - staff are mainly furloughed.

And I'd say that 'being in school with a handful of children' during a pandemic considerably more stressful that sitting at home in front of the computer like many jobs!

There are approximately 3.8 million primary school children in England, if you discount most year 6 and some year 5 children you are still looking at about 3 million children that need an adult to bring them to school. Even if you stagger start and finish times and make everyone queue up it will still mean lots of adults in close proximity to each other twice a day. This is the concern about about fully re-opening schools because once you allow all children back parents will be the ones mixing and infecting each other which will lead to a second lockdown.

I have no problem with schools sticking to online learning just like I have no problem if schools reopen. I do have a problem with schools doing things differently (some open and some not) as this creates an unfair playing field for all the kids, especially the ones taking their GCSEs next year. How can it be that my dcs school is only providing year 10 with one video call each sometime between now and end of July whilst a school 4 miles up the road is able to provide year 10 with 3 days of lessons in school!

Sorry, that’s meant to say 3 days of lesson per week 🤦‍♀️

PenguinIce have you written to your MP to lobby the government about this disparity?

It was the govt that suspended the curriculum and gave no direction or guidance to schools about what - if any - teaching and learning they should provide while schools themselves aren't open.

Penguin different because every school is different.This isn't 'finger in the air' decision making, this is serious.

All school decisions have been made, by senior leaders and governors using Risk Assessment documents.
These RA's are comprehensive. They have been put together using the (massive amount) of government guidance docs. The RA's have been written by Local Authorities/trusts, healthy and safety teams and had to be agreed by unions.
All RA's identify risk, evaluate it and seek solutions to lessen the risk. This has and continues to be a huge piece of work as all schools are different.
Schools have different numbers of children and staff; proportions of vulnerable ( pupils and staff);those who are a priority to be in school, those that can't be.
Every school has a different layout, different classroom sizes, outdoor space and access, different corridors and lunch arrangements.

Policies for behaviour are having to be rewritten to apply, as are safeguarding documents.
There are issues with liability and insurance. For instance in a VA school the governing body (volunteers!) are liable as the employer, as are academy trusts and LA's for maintained schools. There are legalities - what if a child or staff member dies or is left with a life limiting condition following COVID.

This can never be an equal or fair offer to all pupils.
What can be equal and fair and has to be, is that risks are assessed and addressed. All children and staff must have an equal right to be safe.