For those of you that think ‘all lives matter’ heres a quick and easy explanation

[TeddyIsaHe]

MN can be extremely racist at times, most posters that have been here for a while will know this.

All lives can’t matter until black lives do. It’s something we ALL need to understand and I think this makes it very easy for people to grasp.

@Lovely1a2b3c

I think the problems with ' trying to prevent a 'divide' and not getting caught up in 'semantics' are that the divide already exists and that the words people use can reinforce it. Black people live with it everyday but situations like George Floyd's death just bring it to the forefront. Pretending that it doesn't exist or even behaving peacefully and coming-together does not work and is not producing the change that is needed. Sometimes it takes more extreme actions to produce change.

Can you make any suggestions for the 'extreme actions' you speak of? All I am seeing in the UK is arguing over a hashtag and the silencing of people......none of which is particularly efficient in changing anything, and in my opinion is enabling people to look the other way as they think they have 'done their bit'.

@lilmishap

I understand white privilege as the luxury of not really knowing how lucky you are to be white because you've never not been.

Well yes, very well put.

The thing is though, we cannot do anything about the fact that we have never been anything but white. We did not choose to be white, we just happened to be born that way.

I understand white privilege as the luxury of not really knowing how lucky you are to be white because you've never not been

The fundamental flaw in this statement is the simple fact, that nobody can change how they look. Therefore the luxury does not exist.

I 100% agree with JustOneMoreStep and WateroffaDucksCrack very well put.

People can use any analogy they like to describe how they feel. But it's not their feelings or opinions that matter - it is black people's truth that matters. These analogies do not get to the core which is as @Lougle described it. These analogies don't come close so if they're being used to aid people's understanding of the issue, then people aren't truly understanding.

"It is not enough to not be racist, you have to be anti-racist. "

Saw this on social media and think it makes a good point.

It seems to me that there is so much more open racism and segregation in the US versus in Europe. Does anyone have an idea why that is? There is still plenty of racism here of course but it seems less extreme to me. What are we doing different? Can that be maximised somehow?

'White people pretending this doesn’t make sense is what white people do'

This!!

The fundamental flaw in this statement is the simple fact, that nobody can change how they look. Therefore the luxury does not exist

Well there is obviously is a disadvantage to not being white which cannot be changed. So it doesn't exist either if the advantage doesn't?

Without raging at me, why does my comment touch such a nerve?

*I understand white privilege as the luxury of not really knowing how lucky you are to be white because you've never not been

The fundamental flaw in this statement is the simple fact, that nobody can change how they look. Therefore the luxury does not exist.*

As a white person I do feel that I don't see it as much. Someone who calls someone nasty names or filthy because of their skin colour is clearly racist, but I just don't see the other stuff or am not present, like parents warning their kids that police can't always be trusted, or people being stopped more often or other bullying. I absolutely believe (and am disgusted) that it is happening but it's just less visible to me.

The thing is though, we cannot do anything about the fact that we have never been anything but white. We did not choose to be white, we just happened to be born that way

Change the word white to black and re-read this statement.

This is a great analogy for BlackLivesMatter. That we shouldn’t tslk about the issues other people of colour face, it’s just that we shouldn’t appropriate this protest / movement to do that. Martin Luthor King, for example, was inspired by Gandhi but he didn’t hijack the discourse about Indian independance. In the UK you are very likely to be killed in police custody if you are a young bangladeshi, south indian/sri lankan, or Pakistani man; but black people do still have it worse. Until conditions for black people are elevated we can’t expect them to improve for anyone else

@Anotherlovelybitofsquirrel

MN is not extremely racist

Are you new?

It's those that need to " get it" OP that never will. Thick as fuck racists never want to learn, they don't think they're racist, they don't think they're wrong.

I don't agree with this at all. There's always opportunity to educate people. For example, I was never really aware of feminist views until I read extensively on here about the whole subject and now Im pretty radical. Even if just 1 person stops and thinks, then it's a good thing.

I've been using this one I think it's quite good

@walkingchuckydoll this is exactly it, you cant see what doesn't happen in front of your eyes but you can have the sense to recognise how big the world is.
There is a nasty tendency to believe if they don't see it then it cant be happening, if it is happening there must be a reason that isn't "Racist" because that doesn't really happen anymore....because they haven't seen it happen on Park Avenue.

That's why the analogies don't work. The starting premise of those isn't based on institutional inequality
I think ^^ this is important. If the analogies work for you then great. But if you're using them as an access point then they don't acknowledge the long-term structural inequality and systemic nature of racism. The houses aren't equal to start with. It's not just that your child died but that they lived in fear and experienced prejudice every single day.
fwiw please do report racist posts. I don't recognise MN as being 'extremely racist' but perhaps that's because I'm comparing it to other social media eg Twitter; Facebook; Reddit, etc.

@Xenia is always such a joker.

I don't directly see it either @walkingchuckydoll because whilst my home city is ethnically diverse, I grew up in a mostly white suburb. Only two colleagues I regularly interract with are black and whilst I worked for a mixed race family for many years, their black heritage was downplayed by them. That downplaying by the family who we're very successful was I suspect an effect of racism, so I've seen that.

@newusername2009

I have to admit that I didn’t get the issue with all lives matter until I read this. I don’t consider myself unintelligent but am embarrassed by my ignorance.

I too hadn't ever heard about whataboutary until I read about it on mumsnet and I now totally understand it. I think the key thing is to be open to learning, listening, thinking and educating yourself on important subjects.

I meant to add, my limited experience doesn't prevent me from understanding what life is like outside my bubble

@lilmishap - because you see a Luxury in something - looks / skin colour - that can't be charged or bought.
A luxury by it's nature and definition, is an desirable item which is expensive or difficult to obtain.
Now, your own mindset about advantage v. disadvantaged can be changed by yourself. People will generally perceive you how you present yourself.

I come from a position where because I don’t look black, lots of shit gets said in front of me that they’d never usually say in front of a black person.

It’s unbelievably revealing how white people talk when they think they’re ‘safe’ - it’s everyone’s duty to challenge it every time.

My boys (who have a white father) will experience this much more than I will as they don’t look like they have a scrap of black heritage (blue eyes and blonde hair) and I’m teaching them from young how to confront and deal with this shit.

We don’t matter to lots of white people. It’s outrageous.

That's not an analogy though Redballons - that's a very good explanation

Did you miss my next post where i stated luxury was the wrong word?
Privilege gets people all defewnsive.
Now, your own mindset about advantage v. disadvantaged can be changed by yourself. People will generally perceive you how you present yourself
"Yes Officer I'm presenting as White" doesn't work does it.

@Xenia

MN is not extremely racist.

The home for the bewildered springs to mind.