For those of you that think ‘all lives matter’ heres a quick and easy explanation

[TeddyIsaHe]

MN can be extremely racist at times, most posters that have been here for a while will know this.

All lives can’t matter until black lives do. It’s something we ALL need to understand and I think this makes it very easy for people to grasp.

100% the above

I like your analogy better than the burning house and the others I've seen. Because it's actually talking about PEOPLE rather than buildings and objects. I hate that it needs to be broken down to "...imagine that thing you own/that object you love..." no. It's black people dying. The fact you need it translated to an object to understand and empathise is sickening.

Black people aren’t asking for anything white people don't have. They want equality, if anybody feels negatively about this. You need to address it with yourself. Black lives matter protests shouldn’t offend anybody and we shouldn’t be challenging it. Educate & support

Yappity

Your post is incredibly offensive.

I think this was first said in relation to misogyny and women but maybe applies here too.

If you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

I'm honestly aghast that some people here have said they don't use or agree with the term "white privilege"...

How can you not agree with something that factually exists? it's not a slur, it's an extremely self-explanatory term. Wtf?

Also fly off to the far land of fuck with your "tell a white person with a hard life they age white privilege"

A white persons life being hard is immaterial - the hardships they went through in life were circumstantial and has NOTHING to do with the colour of their skin.

You cannot say that for black people.

The fucking audacity of some people my god.

I'm a white working class person, I wasn't born into any privilege except the massive one of having my worth automatically rated higher than others by a whole range of institutions: educational, legal, commercial. Didn't feel that privilege growing up because there were no BAME people where I lived. As far as I was concerned, we WERE the lowest of the low. Once I left home & got about a bit, that privilege slowly became apparent to me. But, 58 years later, I'm still not clear what's the best thing I can do about it. I'm left-wing politically, I can protest, I offer solidarity with the victims of racism and oppression, I can write to my MP for all the good that ever did.

If a child said to me, "I don't get this Black Lives Matter thing, don't all lives matter?" I would sit down with them & try to explain as best I could about why black people need to say this. But if an adult says it, tbh I begin to wonder about where they're coming from. Have they lived in a cave somewhere? Maybe in some deep, rural location, never reading newspapers or tuning in to the news. Like, HOW is this not obvious to you? Such a person doesn't need an analogy, they need a history lesson.

And maybe we need to start treating the US like we treated South Africa when apartheid was in force. Because it seems crystal clear to me that racism is endemic not only in US policing but in the structures of the state. I'm not saying this country is blameless, far from it. But what the hell can we do that BITES?

It still doesn't apply to everyone. Not EVERY white person will receive more support and not EVERY black person will receive less support. A black judge for example will certainly receive more respect and support if they need it than a white bin man.

I'm not naive and think this example can be placed in a majority of situations or even half, maybe not even 10% but using bold terms and stereotyping needs to stop. There's just too many people feeling like crap because of it all.

If you wouldn't put a stereotyping term on the heads of other ethnicities, it isn't fair to do it to white people but I realise this is not in the same league as derogatory terms used against other ethnicities but it's the same principle. You'll never get a whole race that are equal or have it better at all times than other races so grouping everyone into a term isn't on, even if the majority do fall into that bracket.

Hence my anger at BLM. Is that really true? It probably is true to most black people but white people using the term BLM and saying they support the movement yet they've only ever commented or used the phrase since George was murdered and don't think half a billion black lives matter because they've never said a thing about it... they don't really believe BLM. They just want to look good. The whole thing is so sickening really. The amount of people using this horrendous situation to preach, get likes, followers, look liberal. Yuck

Yappity, you're the textbook example of someone who is racist but desperately doesn't want to be seen as racist.

Sorry, but it's true.

I wouldn't even know where to begin with that post.

White people aren't marginalised. White privilege isn't a stereotype - it's an observed fact?

Feel like I'm in some kind of dystopian universe on Mumsnet sometimes.

And if as a white person you're feeling crap about being "stereotyped"...

Hoooo boy - check. your. privilege.

YappityYapYap,
Do you live in the US?

Hence my anger at BLM. Is that really true?

Jesus. “Is it really true?” Is it really true that black lives matter?

We aren’t saying black lives matter we are asking for acknowledgement that they matter at all.

And as to your other points, could you please do some reading about that fact that white privilege exists? Just do that. Take a day and read and read what black people, what academics, what statistics say.

Your (if it is you that you are referring to) circumstances are clearly terrible but it doesn’t not absolve you of white privilege, Yappity and your instance that it does is racist.

The issue here is that you're hoping to explain something away that has been ingrained into white people - that the world experience they have is shared by most others. Its not.

The analogies work - but just enough to hook the mind into presenting some doubt to their world view. You have to work with people who spout racist or ignorant rhetoric and consistently support them to change their views. Expecting a meme or a snappy story to do it is lazy and reductive. This is the hard work that black people need white people to do for them, and you need a whole catalogue of examples, resources, books and videos to continue the unlearning.

*fyi, white british person here who doesnt mean to speak for anyone else and is happy to be put right.

If you think black people dying from starvation is not a result of racism (typical argument is they are running their own countries and have corrupt leaders) I would suggest you take some time to find out about the colonialism and the imperialism thereafter. Ask yourself how and why these poor black countries stay so poor despite being rich in resources, because it is to "our" (Western) benefit.

Stoking tribal tensions, regime change, assassinations to put in sympathetic leaders, election rigging, bribing leaders, sanctions, foreign aid as a tool to control are all hallmarks of UK and US diplomacy after years of colonialism (some colonies only got independence as late as the 80s and 90s). Then there is the colonial hangover that means the majority of the wealth is in minority white hands after much "looting" and ransacking and displacement of people in their own countries.

There is a vested interest in these countries being poor,and remaining so, it means access to cheap oil, minerals and every raw material imaginable. Do you honestly think if processing plants existed in these countries what would happen to our way of life. Suddenly everyday goods you don't think of become unaffordable.

Racism is not just conscious hate. It is all these systems in place that were set up to benefit white people and that continue to exist whether you endorse them or not.

We aren’t saying black lives matter we are asking for acknowledgement that they matter at all.

Typo.
We aren’t saying that black lives matter more, we are asking for acknowledgment that they matter at all.

All you really have to ask yourself Yappity, is all of the struggles and hardships you have gone through - which are totally valid btw - did any of them happen because of the colour of your skin? Were you ever held back from something or were you ever bullied or abused or given no access to things you need because you are white?

Surely, upon realising that the answer is no, you can understand and see that white privilege isn't a stereotype it's a fact?

So Yappity your point about focusing on the black people dying of starvation and not racism becomes moot as again racism is the root of their demise.

I think you are committed to your narrative and that you can be angry at BLM is just incredible really

It still doesn't apply to everyone. Not EVERY white person will receive more support and not EVERY black person will receive less support. A black judge for example will certainly receive more respect and support if they need it than a white bin man.

The point is not only will a white person who is a judge will receive more respect than a black person in the same position, the white person is infinitely more likely to hold that position in the first place due to greater opportunities in education, better career opportunities, better promotion prospects etc etc.

Thank you for your posts, HannahYeah

I was going to say that the BLM movement would probably have come up against far less opposition and the whole "All lives matter" thing if they'd only added a "too" on the end - but there is a reason they didn't and I can't remember exactly what it is, which is to my shame.

The "All lives matter" is pretty much exactly the same as when people say "what about the men" when women are discussing domestic violence against women, or rape. Women far outnumber men, by a huge proportion, in being attacked by a domestic abuser or rapist - and yet there are still people who can't stand the idea that men could possibly be left out. That is male privilege. We, as white people, may not understand white privilege (or like the term - personally I think it's apt) but MOST of us should understand or have experienced male privilege from the wrong side. SO why is this so much harder to understand?

Answer: it shouldn't be.

And to whomever it was who said that President Obama didn't stamp out racism in America - well no. But then neither did Margaret Thatcher stamp out sexism in the UK.

As women, we can work our arses off to be equal with men in the working world, the power stakes, whatever - and still be second best. Because of our sex.
But we're not likely to get pulled over or shot by police because we're women (and that's where THIS analogy falls down completely) - unless we're also black.

A black female state attorney was pulled over in Orlando by police on pretty spurious grounds. When she handed over her ID and told them she was a state attorney, they backed off - but the reason they pulled her over in the first place was because she was a black woman in a fancy car (not that that is what they said, of course!). Wouldn't happen to a white woman, nor a white man.

There are good and bad people of all races, colours, religions, whatever. And MN is not a homogenous mass either, so to call MN racist is not correct - there ARE some very racist people on MN, but there is a huge number of different people on MN and they are not all the same.

The analogy at the top is as good as the house burning analogy but I agree with the poster who says that it's not good enough because it starts from the incorrect premise of all people being perceived as equal, which they are not. No good reason for it apart from white supremacy feelings.

That is to say the greater respect afforded to the black person who is a judge is because of their position in society, the lesser respect afforded to the white person who is a bin man is due to their seemingly lesser role in society not because of their skin colour.

A black judge for example will certainly receive more respect and support if they need it than a white bin man

Are you on a deliberate wind up?
The “ignorance” displayed here is one of two things:

1. the very epitome of white privileged
2. Deliberate, racist distraction techniques

8 years Mr Obama, 8 years off you go.
You’ve got 8 years to destroyed hundreds of years of deep rooted and systemic racism. Off you pop.

@YappityYapYap

“Hence my anger at BLM. Is that really true? It probably is true to most black people but white people using the term BLM and saying they support the movement yet they've only ever commented or used the phrase since George was murdered and don't think half a billion black lives matter because they've never said a thing about it... they don't really believe BLM. They just want to look good. The whole thing is so sickening really. The amount of people using this horrendous situation to preach, get likes, followers, look liberal. Yuck“

I understand this part of what you are saying. But who are you mad at? White people using BLM to get attention on social media? That does negate the whole cause.?