For those of you that think ‘all lives matter’ heres a quick and easy explanation

[TeddyIsaHe]

MN can be extremely racist at times, most posters that have been here for a while will know this.

All lives can’t matter until black lives do. It’s something we ALL need to understand and I think this makes it very easy for people to grasp.

veryvery

It's also very difficult as a white person to know what we can do.

Obviously we can't remove the privilege that we had growing up in the UK, so what can we actually do that isn't seen as patronising, self promoting, or inserting ourselves in a discussion that isn't about us?

I have read such a wide range of suggestions over the past few days and an equal number of criticisms from other black people saying that white people should not do those things. There was one suggestion that if you are friends with black people with names like Tom, Dawn, Michael rather than Shaniqua ( I promise, this is absolutely true, although it was from an American so might not be relevant here) that you are part of the problem. How do we, as white people, understand this because it doesn't seem that our understanding is correct.

My first long term relationship of three years was with an Asian man so I did witness racism both directed towards him and towards us as a couple. I guess it's that experience that has framed how I've behaved over the years but now I'm really questioning it all. Was I wrong? Should I be doing more or different? If so, what?

HeyBlaby

So, I understand that as a basic analogy but how does it fit with people in the US demanding that all police are bad simply because they are police and that the only way to prove they aren't is to resign? So, then what? How is a lawless society beneficial to anyone? Or, are these people just extremists who should be disregarded? Or is it right? Is the system so corrupt that no good can be done?

What is your point.
I don't really have one.

Oh you do Flax. Have you not worked out what it is yet? Because I have.

Oh you do Flax. Have you not worked out what it is yet? Because I have

Me too

@Nellydean21

Just to reply to previous poster about not knowing how to engage being white. Well I do because I read, I think , I'm aware of history. Are you seriously asking for guidance on this? Do you need a book list? I fucking horrified by your lack of awareness, you live in the world, you have had every opportunity to see this and now you want guidance? Fuck off!

So having read lots recently and read what white people should be doing I'm now reading as much again saying that white people absolutely should not be doing these things because it's offensive and patronising. So, I have been reading and educating myself except I've now got opposing views. Do.i just plough ahead with what I think is right? How is that right?

I have a disability. Countless times people have asked me about it, about what I need, how they can help including drs and my employers - should I just say "are you fucking joking? Read about it"? How does that help me or people coming after me? Why wouldn't I explain the issues that I face and how I'm affected day to day? Which conversation is the most productive - fuck off, or explaining?

@hearhoovesthinkzebras
The way of the protests in America could be seen in the same light as the suffragettes.
It's not just a case of one black man is killed and all hell has broken loose, this has been going on for years. Can you really blame them for taking extreme (used in the lightest way) action?
Also it's hardly lawless in comparison to the reason of the protests in the first place.

There are different types of privilege, white privilege doesn't mean that working class girls in deprived areas from chaotic backgrounds being groomed are privileged. Context is everything, if a white person is not searched at an event because sub-consciously the guard has decided they're 'safe' - they just benefitted from white privilege and won't know it (neither will the guard-unconscious bias is proven). Other factors can give privilege, sex, wealth, education, intelligence-their existence doesn't disprove white privilege.

Also that person may benefit from privilege in that scenario, then as a woman go to work with a group of men and be overlooked as a result of her sex. Male privilege etc. We probably all have some element of privilege depending on the scenario.

There's a good video with a sports race analogy. People stood in line, the caller saying- ' move back x spaces if you live in poverty, move back x if you're disabled, move forward x if you're x' etc etc it really demonstrates privilege well.

And I think flaxmeadow, your comment shows your bias and prejudice, very clearly.

Also, if we are going down that rosebud strewn little lane, do we want to talk about the rape of indigenous women, and slaves, by colonialists, and colonialist soldiers?

We can talk it yes but I'm not sure how it relates to my question about the situation now. Or are you suggesting crimes now can be excused because crimes were committed in the past? A blood libel or sins of the fathers type debate?

Or is that, least said soonest mended? They should be over it by now? It was all in the past?

They? Wouldn't the victims and perpetrators be dead by now?

The link to the video regarding privilege that I refer to in my post above:

I am both saddened and angered to read some of the posts on this thread, especially those using the horrific experiences of victims of sexual exploitation to justify their very obvious biased agenda. You know what you are doing and repeating the same question and ignoring the valid explanations shows up your underlying motives. Every time there is a discourse on race and inequalities, someone is guaranteed to come along and attempt to derail the thread.

The events surrounding the grooming and child sexual exploitation of the white survivors by the sexual predators was serialised for television and covered extensively in the media. Their story was told, but to date, I have not seen the same level of coverage given to the other non-white survivors. This, in itself, is an example of the white privilege afforded to those who are white. It is a sad reality that white privilege exists and trying to pretend it doesn’t by comparing black middle class people to working class white people is not comparable in any way.

EastMidsMumOf1

My questions aren't really about the nature of the protests although I do think the rioters and looters are actually harming the people they are trying to defend. Watching black people desperately trying to defend their shops and sobbing that it was a life's work to build and now it's gone was awful. How has that helped them in anyway?

They were saying that we need to use our white privilege to help - my question though is how? Some suggestions were to actively speak out, to visibly be anti racist rather than just being not racist, yet then one particular site had hundreds of black.people slamming any white person who had spoken out - saying it was offensive, as white people we have no right to speak out, that the people doing it are only doing it to feel good about themselves. So, is it wrong to do that then? Is that causing more harm for white people to speak out? If it is wrong, what can we do that uses our privilege for the right reasons?

The people still feeling the stains of those crimes are not.

Particularly in the United States of America.

I think crimes gone past (with impunity) can inform impotent anger that foments into crimes now. As they see it happen again, again, and again.

The house analogy is really good. It definitely explains it. Yes all lives matter, but we need to focus right now on the lives that are in danger

Flax, do you think black barristers have it easier/harder/just the same as white barristers? Do you think that black binmen have it easier/harder/just the same as white binmen?

Some actually good news, but still not enough: George Floyd’s murderer has had his conviction elevated to 2nd degree murder and they are charging the 3 other officers with aiding and abetting murder.

Ex officers that should say.

mbosnz

So what's the way forward? I can't change what British people did all those years ago, just as German people today can't change what happened to my Jewish relatives in the war. We can't change what has happened so what can we do to change what happens now and in the future?

@TeddyIsaHe

Some actually good news, but still not enough: George Floyd’s murderer has had his conviction elevated to 2nd degree murder and they are charging the 3 other officers with aiding and abetting murder.

Long overdue but is what should happen.

That's something.

@hearhoovesthinkzebras honestly, I cant and wont even try to comment on how they choose to protest because in doing so I feel I am some how undermining them. What I do know is that in any case of fighting for rights, serious action had to be taken.
The Tibetan monks in China did self-immolation in protest, literally giving their lives to make a change to the occupation. That's only one extreme situation I can think of from the top of my head but I hope you see my point.
Using our white privilege to help is tough, you cant educate the ignorant and you cant argue with stupid so to battle racists seems like an impossibility but I think even just recognising and ensuring the proper education of future generations against racism, even just black history in itself (the real one not the patriotic white people rule the world one) will be a start to improve the future of black peoples lives, I hope.

So what's the way forward? I can't change what British people did all those years ago, just as German people today can't change what happened to my Jewish relatives in the war. We can't change what has happened so what can we do to change what happens now and in the future?

We can listen and hear, and we can admit and acknowledge. We can make reparations.

A bit like what happened with Jewish people in the War, with the Nuremberg trials, the hunts for Nazis, the repossession of war loot and redistribution.

A bit like what was done in South Africa with 'Truth and Reconciliation', a bit like what is done in NZ with the Waitangi Tribunal.

I'm delighted that the other cops have been charged. Hearshooves, you asked what could be done wrt police that isn't disbanding them. The answer would be to charge everyone that turns a blind eye to racism/that turns off their body cam with aiding and abetting. Punish every single officer that assists or ignores systemic racism.

I think we should speak out about protests that are actually harming the very people protesters claim to be representing, especially when many of the protesters are white. Do the black people whose livelihoods have been destroyed not deserve our support? Do the owners of the house that was set on fire, with their child inside, and the fire brigade delayed by protesters not deserve support?

As for everything else I really don't know what the right thing to do is now. I will carry on doing what I've always done although I fear it's not enough.

@DioneTheDiabolist

I'm delighted that the other cops have been charged. Hearshooves, you asked what could be done wrt police that isn't disbanding them. The answer would be to charge everyone that turns a blind eye to racism/that turns off their body cam with aiding and abetting. Punish every single officer that assists or ignores systemic racism.

Oh I totally agree with that. Any hint of racism.or brutality should not be tolerated at all, I completely agree.

I guess I've got bogged down with the very extreme demands that I've been hearing and reading about over the past days. Much of what was said just made no sense to me, including calls for all good police to resign, but maybe this isn't a good reflection of what needs to change.

We can also refuse to allow ourselves to be distracted from the goal of making racism history by Whataboutery. Be that what about looters, black people who commit crimes and white victims of crime.