For those of you that think ‘all lives matter’ heres a quick and easy explanation

[TeddyIsaHe]

MN can be extremely racist at times, most posters that have been here for a while will know this.

All lives can’t matter until black lives do. It’s something we ALL need to understand and I think this makes it very easy for people to grasp.

I might be very wrong and I hope people will correct me (and I really don’t mean to be patronising) but as far as I’m concerned the absolute minimum I can do to combat racism is acknowledge my own privilege and listen when black people are discussing their experiences and learn from what they tell me.

I would let the world burn too @kale

absolute minimum I can do to combat racism is acknowledge my own privilege and listen when black people are discussing their experiences and learn from what they tell me

This is what I was thinking too. How can I understand something I have never experienced? By listening to people who have experienced it.
And calling others out whenever you hear racist comments being spouted of course.

The better Way to think of it is to add ‘too’ so it’s ‘Black lives matter too’ that makes it much clearer.

I love the number of people who are deciding that the movement got their name wrong, because it upsets the sensibilities of those who think BLM means their own life doesn’t matter, or it’s not clear enough. Maybe we should add a tag line “Black Lives Matter... but so do all of you who never need to fear going to the shops, or for a run, or standing on a street corner or worry that an interaction with the police will end in your death. You matter too” 🤷‍♀️

White privilege is a different kettle of fish. For one is it white privilege or is it majority privilege? Do white people in say Japan or Nigeria enjoy the same levels of privilege as the do in the USA or UK? That's just a general Q and would be intersting to know how societies with other majority populations get on.

Having lived and worked in majority black countries in Southern Africa, yes white privilege is perhaps even worse because of the colonial hangover. White people are afforded more opportunities, wealthier, assumed innocent or more qualified even when mediocre, have better access to economic opportunities despite affirmative action existing. The system is geared towards them because it was created for their benefit. Changing governments doesn't automatically resolve hundreds of years of systematic oppression especially when the majority of the wealth is still in your hands.

@Ethelfleda

absolute minimum I can do to combat racism is acknowledge my own privilege and listen when black people are discussing their experiences and learn from what they tell me

This is what I was thinking too. How can I understand something I have never experienced? By listening to people who have experienced it.
And calling others out whenever you hear racist comments being spouted of course.

This was my gut feeling too but then listening to what people were saying yesterday they were calling for more than that. The overwhelming view was that it's not enough to not be racist, we need to be anti racist. However, the huge disagreement was in how you express that and for every example given large groups criticised it and said that anyone who did it was part of the problem. So, what should we be doing? One argument was that all police should resign because working for a fundamentally racist regime makes you the problem, even if you yourself are a good police officer. This just makes no sense to me so does that make me part of the problem?

@rainrainpleasestay

I would let the world burn too *@kale*

Is this not why we have a justice system rather than allowing a bereaved family for example to mete out punishment? If a family member of mine were killed I would want to tear the murderer apart with my bare hands - would anyone support me doing that though?

YANBU.

The 'all lives matter' slogan is an attempt to deny history and current reality.

I keep seeing some people insisting that white privilege doesn't exist in countries without a white majority such as Nigeria, China etc. which is untrue( at least for Nigeria).
As a Nigerian who grew up in Nigeria, I have seen white foreigners being treated better than actual citizens. They still enjoy white privilege as they are assumed to be more educated, richer, more good looking than the average Nigerian.
For instance, at school, we had several foreign headteachers, we even had a French one who could not speak English very well ( it was a British international school) and yet got the job over more qualified Nigerians.

Yes, colonialism basically means white privilege exists pretty much everywhere.

So how do we, as individuals, change this?

White privilege isn't about saying that life is easy for all white people. It's about saying that their life hasn't been made even harder purely because of the colour of their skin

But how would you explain this to the many white victims of criminal gangs in places like Rotherhm, Rochdale, Telford and so on

Who were
Already largely underprivileged by class and from some of the most deprived areas in Europe (north of England)
Targeted by criminals because they are white
Subject to racist abuse during their ordeal
Ignored, or even arrested themselves, when they tried to report it to the police and other services
Called racist, not just by the gangs, but by the services and media, for reporting it.
Gave evidence in court of racist assault and the judge in at least one court casesagreed they had been the victims of racially aggravated crimes

How did their white skin in their situations give them privilege?

@Flaxmeadow that is totally daft. They were not targeted for being white if you had any knowledge in some of those cases, aswell as the ones in Derbyshire you would know there was also a percentage of black and mixed race girls that were groomed and raped.
Disgusting comment.

But how would you explain this to the many white victims of criminal gangs in places like Rotherhm, Rochdale, Telford and so on

By telling them that had they been black, their experiences would have been even worse for them as victims.

@dione damn fucking right, the black victims dont even seem to get any acknowledgement - yet again.

I completely agree with where you are coming from, and I'm getting a bit fed up of seeing "but surely all lives matter" being trotted out, but that's a crap analogy.

@Flaxmeadow that is totally daft. They were not targeted for being white

According to evidence given in court, they were

One girl gave evidence that she asked a gang leader why they chose white girls like her and his reply was "because we hate white people"

if you had any knowledge in some of those cases, aswell as the ones in Derbyshire you would know there was also a percentage of black and mixed race girls that were groomed and raped.

I'm not familiar with the case in Derbyshire, but I do know many victims in other cases and their families

Disgusting comment.

It was a question. I'll ask again

How do you explain white privilege to a victim who was racially targeted and racially abused by one of these gangs for being white?

Please dont tell me this didn't happen, because it was given in police statements and in crown court evidence by the victims. Or are you saying they're lying, or that they have "white fragility'" or some other term?

By telling them that had they been black, their experiences would have been even worse for them as victims

In what way worse?

The white victims went to the authorities and the authorities protected the BAME criminals. Over and over again.

Being white does not mean you never experience victimisation or oppression. However, I would suggest that it means that you are less likely to be a victim of it, or targeted, on the basis of your colour.

And I think flaxmeadow, your comment shows your bias and prejudice, very clearly.

How do you explain white privilege to a victim who was racially targeted and racially abused by one of these gangs for being white?

I think your motives are rather nefarious, however as has been explained countless times on this (and many other threads), white privilege does not preclude appalling things from happening to white people. I rather think people deliberately suggest this as a diversion because they don’t want to acknowledge the same.

Being white does not mean you never experience victimisation or oppression. However, I would suggest that it means that you are less likely to be a victim of it, or targeted, on the basis of your colour.

I would argue not less likely in the north of England though

And I think flaxmeadow, your comment shows your bias and prejudice, very clearly

I'm not holding an opinion. I'm asking a question, which to be fair you did answer

I think your motives are rather nefarious, however as has been explained countless times on this (and many other threads), white privilege does not preclude appalling things from happening to white people

I understand the answers but how would explain to them they had white privilege

Also, if we are going down that rosebud strewn little lane, do we want to talk about the rape of indigenous women, and slaves, by colonialists, and colonialist soldiers?

Or is that, least said soonest mended? They should be over it by now? It was all in the past?

In what way worse?
Being othered from birth has an insidious impact and effects the way people try to access help in the first place. Black girls are sexualised by society more than their white counterparts. Black people aren't seen as worthy enough victims. How many news outlets have reported the abuse of the black victims of grooming gangs?

I understand the answers but how would explain to them they had white privilege

Literally as I just said. Why are you implying they wouldn’t understand?

I would argue not less likely in the north of England though

Are you saying white privilege doesn’t exist in “the north”?