For those of you that think ‘all lives matter’ heres a quick and easy explanation

[TeddyIsaHe]

MN can be extremely racist at times, most posters that have been here for a while will know this.

All lives can’t matter until black lives do. It’s something we ALL need to understand and I think this makes it very easy for people to grasp.

rainrainpleasestay

^ spot on.

Yappity you’re difficulties in explaining racism and white privilege should not mean that BAME, and specifically in this case Black people, should have to change the name of a whole vein of societal privilege.

White people in western society have “an invisible package of unearned assets“. No one of any colour should expect black people to do all of the work to change that and nor is it possible for that to happen without white people acknowledging, understanding and challenging that privilege.

She asked me if I had been called (insert names) and I said no. In her innocent state, she said so why does your life matter and mine doesn't? Trying to explain to an 8 year old is hard!
My DD has just turned 9, and she too has learning difficulties. She asked about a picture she saw of a policeman taking the knee at a peaceful BLM protest. I was able to explain to her he was kneeling to show support for black people who aren’t kept safe, and are often hurt by the police because they are black. I was also able to explain that Black Lives Matter is a movement to tell everyone about black people being hurt and to remind everyone that black people have a right to be safe too. It’s honestly not that difficult to explain.

We need more representative people in positions of power. But rich white men don't like sharing their power much

Unfortunately I am not sure that insisting on concepts like ' White privilege' being understood and taken on board is particularly useful. This is because many people in power are completely aware of this idea and know that this exists. However whilst they may not overtly want to take anything away from anyone (though those who are openly and overtly racist do do want that) most of them definitely don't want to give anything up either.

So for instance (and I am going to be completely honest here) I know full well that many children for BAME backgrounds struggle to get good jobs because of lack of knowledge of how to build contacts and networking etc and lack of access, even if they do know how in theory. This is all clear and unfair I know but it won't stop me trying to help my son get a job through friends etc if I can. That this taking an opportunity away from a less privileged child is probably true but I put my child's success and wellbeing above that of anyone else's (notwithstanding his white privilege).

I would also help a friend's child, black or white, above a stranger's child (all other things being equal of course) and I can't see that changing much at all. If a lot of my friends are of a BAME background that may not be a problem but if they are mostly white, it definitely is

I imagine most people in power want to protect that power and privilege so they share power only with people like themselves, or people they know and think they can trust. That is how humans work. I can only think of two ways past this (but am open to other ideas):

More close mixing, friendships, marriages between cultures and races (hate that word) leading to fewer perceived differences between people . This 'multi cultural' idea was seen as a good solution in principle the 80s and 90s but many people have come to see this doesn't work as well as we might have wanted it to . After all why should minority groups have to rely on the 'largesse' of more privileged citizens to give them a leg up to power . It puts them in a position of inferiority (at least at first) and I can see it would often be humiliating. Plus see my point about people not really wanting to give up stuff if they can help it.

The other way to stop this is with legislation and regulation and things like affirmative action. I don't object to those in principle either though I can see how if this affected my child personally I really wouldn't like it.

It is a difficult problem and I wish I could see a way through it. Unfortunately as I have got older, I can't see things changing without some sort of violent revolution. Though from what I can tell, revolutions rarely result in more equality, just in with a reversal of power or the status quo being maintained, neither of which is ideal, though I can see how a reversal of who holds the power is a very very tempting aim for those who have had so little for so long.

Such a perfect and simple explanation, jellycat.

It’s scary that someone unwilling to learn about what is going on in the world around them is explaining things to children. That someone would just decide they don’t like the language therefore aren’t going to actually explain it to a child that wants to understand and needs help.

@PipGirl404

I'm honestly aghast that some people here have said they don't use or agree with the term "white privilege"...

How can you not agree with something that factually exists? it's not a slur, it's an extremely self-explanatory term. Wtf?

I think it's because it's context and culture specific. Certainly in many countries, white privilege does not exist.

People who say ‘all lives matter’ are the same ones who say ‘I’m not racist ...but’

It’s like Animal Farm - all lives matter but some matter more than others - until that changes then their needs to be movements like BLM

And the ‘equality/ melting pot’ bollix so beloved by some people here is awful - you can’t have equality until you accept diversity and acknowledge and accommodate difference

I think it's because it's context and culture specific. Certainly in many countries, white privilege does not exist.

Such as

Counties with no white people 🤷‍♀️

I was in college the first time I walked into a place where white was not the majority.

I had to choose a speaker to see for a class credit, and the event I attended was a black speaker and so was attended by about 200 people and very few of them white.

I walked in the door which was at the front of the building near the stage, so in front of the entire room. Just opening the door and seeing all faces looking at me that did not look like my own was an education.

It helped that one student in my class had recently described what it was like for him to be black and walk into a room of white people, all looking at him. I’d thought of course everyone looks when a new person walks in the room. But that didn’t matter when it was me walking into the room, feeling that feeling.

I didn’t know if I was welcome, and didn’t know the concept of privilege then but I sure felt the difference of being different, not being in the majority, not being in charge.

I think every white person should feel that feeling repeatedly until they grasp what it really feels like.

White privilege is obviously real as is privilege based on sex, disability, socio-economic status etc. We all have different combinations of privileges and some quite frankly have many more than others. How our privileges affect us will also be different depending on the circumstances we find ourselves and the environment we operate in.

I think there is a danger of focussing too heavily on a single privilege in isolation and implying that anyone that holds it is by default "privileged". Privileged is a loaded term that to many implies that you are substantially better off and have more advantages than the average person. For example, if I stated that I knew somebody that was financially privileged I imagine you would think the person was wealthy, not just that they aren't poor.

you can’t have equality until you accept diversity and acknowledge and accommodate difference

Yes, and diversity isn't just a case of Black and White.
All white people aren't privileged not to know racism, many experience it on the same scale as Black people.

And what I’ve written above is kind of stupid, in the sense that it was just a few moments of my life. But it did help me see things more clearly.

Even if just 1 person stops and thinks, then it's a good thing

But its bloody exhausting over and over again with such a pitifully small rate of return. There is so little willingness on the part of the audience to listen. There is regularly more concern about tacking "too" on the end of a hashtag than the reason that hashtag exists - that is the living embodiment of privilege.

Every time it takes on average two posts on these threads for someone to pipe up with "its not racist here" or "all lives matter" or similar. Congrats, this thread lasted to its fourth post.

I seem to be recommending this a lot at the moment:
www.amazon.co.uk/Longer-Talking-White-People-About/dp/1408870584?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Maybe people who say they are interested in the issues could make some effort to read it or similar before insisting that they are absolutely not racist and their poor wee feelings are hurt.

@Bumpitybumper
There certainly feels like there is a danger in admitting white privilege because it feels like admitting we don’t live in a meritocracy. And that every thing I believe I have accomplished might not truly be because of my own greatness.

It’s like a golf game where the tees for white people are closer to the green. No one wants to admit after they won that it was easier for them than the others playing a game.

The concept of meritocracy is very important in white America. I grew up being told in school that it was one of only countries where anyone could go anywhere, do anything. That we don’t have a class system like the UK.

I’m not kidding! It’s hard even now to admit they only meant white people.

On another note, why is white being autocorrected to a capital W?!

I think people are listening to each other on this thread. Good post from bumbling above.
i would certainl like women to have 50% not 20% of positions of power in the Uk and the 12% who are not white in the UK to have 12% of positions of power etc etc; obviously it may have to be regional 2% are none white in Northumberland where I am from whereas where I now live in outer London most people are not white.

I have been to Nigeria to give talks/work at few times and everyone was not white (actually not too different from some situations I am in in this bit of London). What I found really nice was I was with older women my age with children who were lawyers that that commonality of experience (including those about to send children to UK boarding schools when they were 13) was a good bond to aid understanding. in fact I found more in common there than some groups of all men in London or even when I did some work in Iran which is more sexist than Nigeria or the UK.

The more we can mix and listen to all kinds of different people the better.

@HannaYeah Because in your Contact list you will have someone with the surname White. It's very frustrating!

@HannaYeah
*There certainly feels like there is a danger in admitting white privilege because it feels like admitting we don’t live in a meritocracy. And that every thing I believe I have accomplished might not truly be because of my own greatness.

It’s like a golf game where the tees for white people are closer to the green. No one wants to admit after they won that it was easier for them than the others playing a game*
Isn't this true regarding all privilege? We all like to believe we have achieved what we have through merit but the reality the "golf course" has been skewed in all kinds of ways. You may focus on the tees being placed differently for white people but ignore the fact that women are being given a worse ball or the poor have been given inferior clubs. You can acknowledge all of this but not recognise that the disabled may be at a disadvantage without anybody touching the golf course at all. Then of course there all the people that have all of the disadvantages and very little chance at all.

As I said earlier, we are all capable of ignorance and most of us will have subconscious discriminatory thoughts and beliefs. My concern is that focussing on one of these things and then accusing everyone else of being privileged could be inflammatory to those struggling with their own inequality.

@Bumpitybumper

I learned the word “whataboutery” on mumsnet. Your post is just a great example of that.

If you don’t mind black people being killed and discriminated against by the police without repercussions, you are free to focus on other things.

But right now it’s getting sorely needed attention. You’re not going to take the focus off of it by trying to say it’s not a problem because there are also other problems.

I find this helpful, to help others understand affirmative action & privilege & equality v equity

“White people pretending this doesn’t make sense is what white people do” - says op. Pretty racist statement imo.

@HannaYeah
I'm fully aware of whataboutery thanks and I actually don't think this is a case of it at all. As a frequenter of the feminism boards I see it a lot and find it irritating when every other response is about men. I would however expect some challenge if I was to suggest that all men were privileged because they enjoyed the benefits of male privilege. You can focus on a specific issue without minimising the struggles of other groups.

Thing is beachcitygirl , the left-most person in your third image still has the best view, due to their privilege of height.

Devlesko it’s been repeated here over and over that White Privilege does not mean all white people are privileged - that’s not the meaning of the term!

If Mumsnet could get as up in arms about denouncing white supremacy and systematic racism as they do about the prospect of sharing a bathroom with a trans person, this site would be a much better place.