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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this procrastinating about school reopening is going to cause more deaths and long term issues than CV

259 replies

whenthejoyreturns · 01/06/2020 08:40

Credit due to all the schools that have worked hard and found inventive ways to open this week. I know of some that have sent positive messages to parents and managed to reassure them that their dc won’t be traumatised by the experience.
What’s preventing all schools doing this? Our local primary has sent an email basically telling parents they will be committing murder if their dc step anywhere near school. Unsurprisingly they’ve decided they’re not ready to open yet. This is a modern school, all classrooms have doors to outside and are large and airy. The deputy head’s dc has diabetes and I believe she doesn’t want to open because of her personal circumstances.
AIBU to think schools are not thinking about children and the negative impact this is bound on thousands. I believe many will never recover from this.

OP posts:
BogRollBOGOF · 01/06/2020 19:04

My friend working in safeguarding has had a tough time trying to get in touch with the families known to be vulnerable. Sometimes school is the only place where children get healthy, hot food and get changed into clean clothes and are given a level of human respect.

SEN support has largely shut down. Families with no respite from difficult medical or behavioural care. Children that can't access the work set remotely falling behind their peers. Suspension of processes diagnosing SNs and drawing up EHCPs. Children developing anxiety and social phobias, especially if parents have been particularly risk adverse and they haven't ventured beyond their house- from some posts over the last couple of months, literally the house and not even in their garden (I sincerely hope that this has changed since early lockdown with the emphisis on meeting outside)

Children not being able to socialise in an age appropriate way. You can't play football or swap pokemon cards on zoom. Many children just don't have the small talk conversation skills to sustain a conversation with friends in the abstract context of a phone call. Children need other children to develop. SALT often uses group activities to develop age appropriate communication.

Other than trying to avoid imminent threat of death in a war zone, children have never been forced into prolonged social isolation. Current rates of Covid 19 do not compare to hiding from genocide.

Schools are for education. Childcare is structured around the existance of schools. Schools are for learning softer social skills. Even home educators do a lot of group working and socialising.

We will never clearly see the true toll of harm done to children by many months without school, but it will be worse than the direct toll of Covid 19. For decades there will be suicides with the roots sown in what is happening now, and the roots of mental disorders and existing problems exacerbated by poor support.

Teachers have worked through the whole pandemic, in some cases literally through their holidays too. They've been working with the children at highest risk of infection from key worker parents. I'm struggling to see how returning to school is so much more catastrophic now than it was teaching key worker children in April or whole classes in March. (When I offered my services to the headteacher due to my DBS with the school and PGCE)

I appreciate that different schools have different logistical challenges, but some schools have been appallingly alarmist and unprofessional, and there has been political game playing by certain unions and LAs which have undermined other schools and areas trying to be more pragmatic.

BogRollBOGOF · 01/06/2020 19:06

*Direct toll being upon nursery/ school age cohorts, not the wider population.

Bollss · 01/06/2020 19:06

But we are still in a pandemic. Surely we can’t advocate opening schools as normal while it is still going on?

Apparently not but we can advocate letting children be abused and die so that's nice.

A study in Iceland couldn't fine one single incidence where a child passed covid to an adult. This needs to be looked into because if it is universally true... We have needlessly locked children away and we have needlessly let them be abused and die.

Myothercarisalsoshit · 01/06/2020 19:08

First:
For decades there will be suicides with the roots sown in what is happening now, and the roots of mental disorders and existing problems exacerbated by poor support.
Then:
some schools have been appallingly alarmist and unprofessional
And you're the only one allowed to be alarmist round here, right?

Myothercarisalsoshit · 01/06/2020 19:09

Gene Nobody's advocating that and you know it.

Bollss · 01/06/2020 19:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

babybythesea · 01/06/2020 19:26

I’m bowing out of this. I’ve spent my day working in a school, with no break all day, to make sure a difficult environment is as much fun as possible for our kids, to be accused of advocating that children die.
I just happen to believe that we are not in a position to fully open schools, as normal, with no restrictions yet, due to the pandemic. Our own scientists have said there is insufficient evidence on the role children play in transmission (the four who have broken ranks from SAGE to express concerns.)
But somehow that wider concern is a desire to see children die? You don’t want a debate, clearly, or you wouldn’t come out with that ridiculous hyperbole. The only solution is to completely open schools as normal and any alternative is to advocate children dying? I can not engage further with that sort of over the top rhetoric.

Bollss · 01/06/2020 19:37

Ok I apologise for that. Not advocating it but... Accepting it?

It just enrages me that abused children are seen as some kind of acceptable collateral damage. They shouldn't be.

spanieleyes · 01/06/2020 19:43

Do you seriously believe that anyone working with young people sees abused children as acceptable collateral damage!

Bollss · 01/06/2020 19:44

@spanieleyes

Do you seriously believe that anyone working with young people sees abused children as acceptable collateral damage!
No. I don't think teachers think that. I think government think that. I think some local councils think that.
spanieleyes · 01/06/2020 19:46

Yet it is teachers getting the blame!

Bollss · 01/06/2020 19:50

Not from me it isn't!

I'm angry at the government for the bloody impossible guidelines and local councils for issuing statements saying "no" with no bloody other explanation.

I'm sure there are some teachers that are dead set against it but I'm not sure how much influence they have anyway! Probably not much.

There's prob the odd headteacher throwing their toys out I'm sure.

GinDaddyRedux · 01/06/2020 19:54

The people who are openly abusing teaching staff for not wanting to work in an unsafe environment, are completely unreasonable. They just want the schools open so they can go to work. It's that simple. If they were in the teacher's position, would every single one of them do the same and go in? Let's be having them if so.

The people who are openly abusing teachers and schools for opening up and creating a potential hotbed for the novel coronavirus... my word. You can't have it both ways. schools aren't opening on a whim - they are going through rigorous procedures to try and ensure safety.

At the end of the day, if people are so angry and frustrated and want to project on schools... why not project on a society where due to economic mechanisms that ensure house prices rising way behind salary multiples (yeah the stuff everyone loves on here) people don't live near family anymore. Where two full time salaries are often needed in order to live etc.

Schools always get a hard time on here because people can't see beyond that "free childcare" allowing them to live their lifestyles. The minute it's taken away people go kicking and screaming like toddlers "give it back to me NOW". The human beings behind that provision - ? There to be abused Hmm

P.S once again I'm not a teacher, don't even have kids of school age. Just showing respect to a maligned profession.

Bollss · 01/06/2020 19:59

@GinDaddyRedux

The people who are openly abusing teaching staff for not wanting to work in an unsafe environment, are completely unreasonable. They just want the schools open so they can go to work. It's that simple. If they were in the teacher's position, would every single one of them do the same and go in? Let's be having them if so.

The people who are openly abusing teachers and schools for opening up and creating a potential hotbed for the novel coronavirus... my word. You can't have it both ways. schools aren't opening on a whim - they are going through rigorous procedures to try and ensure safety.

At the end of the day, if people are so angry and frustrated and want to project on schools... why not project on a society where due to economic mechanisms that ensure house prices rising way behind salary multiples (yeah the stuff everyone loves on here) people don't live near family anymore. Where two full time salaries are often needed in order to live etc.

Schools always get a hard time on here because people can't see beyond that "free childcare" allowing them to live their lifestyles. The minute it's taken away people go kicking and screaming like toddlers "give it back to me NOW". The human beings behind that provision - ? There to be abused Hmm

P.S once again I'm not a teacher, don't even have kids of school age. Just showing respect to a maligned profession.

Why is it an unsafe environment?

I personally would be happy to go in under the circs being proposed but I'm not a teacher so I'm not sure id be any help!

What's your evidence that it's a potential hotbed? A study in Iceland didn't find one case of a child passing it onto an adult. I hope there are more studies like that because I'm sick of innocent children being reffered to as dirty and germ ridden.

That "free childcare" allows parents to work to feed and house their children. I don't think it's "lifestyle" related. It's about not wanting your house repossessed for a lot of people. You must be very privileged if you think this is just a lifestyle issue. It's not.

I respect teachers too. I wouldn't want their job. But to just say "no it's not safe" doesnt help anyone. Equally that's not down to teachers as individuals is it?

spanieleyes · 01/06/2020 19:59

The whole thread started with " my school isn't opening because the deputy head doesn't want it too as her daughter has diabetes" . If that isn't blaming a teacher, what is!

Maryjane3227 · 01/06/2020 20:01

The risk assessment for my secondary school is 18 pages long, most risks can't be mitigated. We could send a copy of it to the parents of all 1,400 children I suppose? We could insist our 1,400 students get the bus and tube, as most take public transport to school? Or we could for now, whilst many Scientists say it is safest to stay closed, try to keep home learning engaging, online assessment regular, and use phone calls home and Microsoft Teams to communicate daily with students and parents.

Bollss · 01/06/2020 20:02

I can only speak for myself @spanieleyes!

FudgeBrownie2019 · 01/06/2020 20:07

We're Midlands and both DC's schools aren't opening any more than for Key Worker DC til 15th June at the earliest. Both schools have written letters home stating their reasons and explaining that they don't see our DC (Y4 and Y9) returning before the summer break.

I applaud them for standing their ground - each LA has a different area, a different group of parents and pupils, differing circumstances. Some DC will be safer at school. Some need to go. LA's should be entitled to make that choice based on what they feel is safest for their region.

I'm not a doom monger, nor am I desperate to throw them back in to school. I simply feel it'll be right when it's safe, and not til then.

Witchcraftandhokum · 01/06/2020 20:17

In the last few weeks on here there have been parents damanding schools open, a poll which showed the majority of parents wouldn't send their kids back back, Boris saying schools should begin to reopen on June 1st, local authorities taking advice from Sage saying don't open until the 15th, parents demanding to know how children can keep to social distancing, parents saying they don't want teachers to take precautions, advice that masks should be worn, and the promotion of a petition demanding schools open immediately with no safety measures or social distancing

And you wonder why schools are as you say 'procrastinating"

DollyParton2 · 01/06/2020 20:21

Our school opened but not for DDs year- Year 1. This apparently because the teachers didn’t want to return. Both young and without their own kids.
There isn’t any study that says kids pass onto adults in any concerning degree. If not now, then when WILL the teachers refusing to go back seem it safe enough? September? Or only when a vaccine is found? This can’t just continue. Kids need to go back to school.

Witchcraftandhokum · 01/06/2020 20:25

DollyParton2 there isn't any conclusive evidence to prove that kids don't pass it on to adults either. Would you stand in a room with 30 other people all day?

spanieleyes · 01/06/2020 20:26

Who told you the teachers" didn't want to return" because I very much doubt that is the case! You can't simply say you don't want to go back, that would be a disciplinary offence! Unless a teacher is shielding or lives with someone who is, they have to return as required. We have teachers from every year group now teaching out of their current class, our year 2 teacher has reception, our year 1 staff have reception and year 1, our year 3 teacher has year 2 and 3, our yr 4 teacher has 3 and 4, the yr 5 teacher has year 6. If the head has the staff and room for year 1 they will open, if they haven't then it won't!

DollyParton2 · 01/06/2020 20:30

Witchcraftandhokum 30 adults? Probably not. 30 kids? If I was a teacher, then yes. It wouldn’t be 30 though would it? Probably 15-20 max. Then staggered school hours/ days of coming in, so likely 10-12 at most at any point. Not really much of a risk.

Witchcraftandhokum · 01/06/2020 20:34

Well as I said there's no conclusive proof that kids are at any less risk of passing it on. And I teach year 10, 14 and 15 year old. Do they automatically become a risk on their 16th birthday?

Yes, when we go back there will be much smaller classes and it will be part time, because that's the only way we will be able to do it. Kids being back full-time is a long way off.

Bollss · 01/06/2020 20:35

Kids being back full-time is a long way off

That will do them all the world of good. Hmm I sincerely hope you're wrong.