To worry about war with China

[Sassenach85]

I am not political and I don’t mind admitting my knowledge about international affairs and the ins and outs and details is pretty low. Humour me - what would happen if we went to war with China? If America did? I’m no expert but it feels like we are in a dangerous point in history right now.

YANBU there is much trouble ahead

I think we’ve got to be careful not to be taken in by the recent huge rise in anti Chinese racism and demonizing of China and the Chinese. I’m no fan of the Chinese government but they are not interested in war with the UK or generally of doing us any harm. The economic rise of China has hugely benefited us as much as China and we should continue to trade and liaise with them/

Definitely within next 5 yes. :(

With the Chinese issue aside I am finding it fringe I g how difficult it actually is to decide what is a reputable source of information in our society. Who to believe? What to think? Did they want me to think that? I think a general feeling I have certainly picked up on is that a lot of the general public have a feeling something g is just amiss, something feels hidden from us and we don’t know what because things just don’t add up. The worry and doubt certainly does lead to fear etc I agree but I think China may have bigger plans than most assume.

Scruffy oak - if that were true I cannot imagine how that would look. Much like I couldn’t have imagined what it would be like to live through a pandemic.

The Yellow Peril has been around as a theory for ages. Appallimg human rights abuses in China but we can turn a blind eye to them as long as we can do business. Nothing new here.

If China stopped buying USA debt, it would destroy the USA economy, which would then destroy the Chinese economy.

They are too entwined to have a full scale war.

But they could have a skirmish.

The advantage would be with the USA, but they would be overreaching, so China would hold their own. I doubt they would though, as both sides know that it would achieve nothing.

China's war record post 1949 includes Korea where they supported North Korea and handed western forces their arse on a plate.

They supplied numerous liberation movement with arms and training across Africa post colonialism and the Viet cong.

They have huge numbers and the technology to destroy us.

Cold wars are fought by proxy, look up Angola, Africa's longest civil war and the parties involved. Although the USA and ussr never met directly their proxies did.

China has REAL BIG racism issues - did any of you see the no blacks signs in the McDs windows - have any of you seen the advert for a washing powder where a chinese lady puts a black man into the wash and he comes out white. The US also has REAL BIG racism issues. China and WHO are like siblings and the US does not trust either of them.

Totally silly to worry about actual war. Trade war, yes, but hopefully we would keep out of it.

If we or they were ever insane enough to go to war, we would be in trouble. China could destory us fairly easily, if america stayed out of it. At the moment, only Russia and the US could beat China in a full scale confrontation, but there would be such massive losses, that calling it a win would be dubious at best. The only thing we have to reassure ourselves is that we are very far from China and so their missiles would have to cross a lot of hostile territory to get to us.

I think China is spoiling for a fight or to take over.
This pandemic has weakened the West but not weakened China.
They only have to release another disease and we are really in the shit.
You only have to see the way they treat the pro Democracy protesters in Hong Kong to see how what they think of our Democracy.
They hate it, they are all for state control.

CHina stole Tibet and pretend it was always theirs and the rest of the world has not stopped them.

I hope that they are stopped from making more land grabs in India which are usually under reported in our media.

I am concerned about what else China might do to the West including the UK.
The only think I can do is avoid Chinese goods and that is almost impossible. They make everything and they make it shoddy.

We could ask our MP's to stop doing deals with the Chinese like building our new Nuclear Power station in the South West and of course we have to block them from 5G or who knows what they might do with that!

What kind of war did you have in mind, a Chinese expeditionary force landing at Dover, or British force landing at Hong Kong? Either is pretty far fetched. More likely to be fought over the economy and by cyber / media / trade.

China does not have a 'very weak army'. They're around number 2 in the world. Not gonna happen though, there just arnt the territorial disputes of the kind you see russia having with Europe and there still enough room for East and west to do their own thing.
People thinking its a logical carry on from the cold war, China just doesnt have the communist ideology and the resulting theories of permanent revolution anymore which will push it. like the USSR

If they carry on in india though they're buggered.

I can’t post a source and will say this could be false! BUT in my mind I’m sure I read an article about China playing the long game to disable the west and eventually take over. Ultimately what on earth could we do about it? Nothing. Maybe that’s the sobering thought.

dadshere, leaving nuclear weapons out of it, the US still has twice the size of the Chinese armed forces, of much better quality and worldwide allies.

Maybe Covid has already caused the economic destruction throughout the world and left countries open to takeovers of large organisations

All-out war between any of the major powers is so unlikely to happen that you really don't need to worry about it OP. They all have nuclear weapons. That is an inherent brake on any rising tensions, such as the current situation between China and India.

Also important to remember that all the major powers have a shared stake in the status quo. None of them want to destroy the world or obliterate each other -- they just want more power and advantage within the existing system. That is also a natural brake on things getting out of control.

Nuclear weapons are a relatively recent invention before that, you had great power wars for thousands of years. So what you see now are countries trying to figure out lots of ways short of war that will help them achieve their aims. So expect a lot of what we have today economic and trade wars, proxy wars, information warfare, perhaps even limited border skirmishes. You can call that a Cold War but it's really what powerful states have been doing to each other for a long time.

This is worth looking at OP. One of the people who writes for it, Isabel Hilton, I have a lot of respect for.
www.chinafile.com/

@dreamingbohemian good post.

I wouldn't put anything past China OR the US right now...both are a total shitstorm waiting to happen.

A few years ago China was expected to reach economic parity with the USA by 2025. With Covid and Trumps terrible mismanagement this will probably happen quicker. People try to take comfort in the fact they need the West to buy their stuff but following the 2008 crash which hurt them a lot, they’ve made a much bigger effort towards encouraging domestic consumption so no longer rely on export to prop up their economy as much. No bullet will need to be fired.

China has played the long game and is on the verge of winning. It’s dislike of anything and anyone not Han Chinese is well known. The Communist Party treat minorities like shit. They only currently treat westerners with respect as they are richer and more powerful (for now). Watch what happens when they become number 1. You see how Africans are treated in China as they have less money and power....The CCP believe in Han Chinese supremacy.

The Chinese were always going to be the greatest economic power but the West, particularly America under Trump did not need to antagonise them. The CCP have long memories.

Forgot to add that in answer to the OP, she shouldn’t worry about a war between U.K. and China. The U.K. is tiny and irrelevant without the EU. We would be rolled over in minutes and thus we wouldn’t even dare engage in a war with them. The best thing is to remain friendly but wary and try and influence them to respect other countries and cultures.

The American empire will be the shortest in history from the end of WW2 until now with Trump as the modern day Caligula, so it’s in our interests to remain on good terms with both with a view to aligning our longer term interests with China in the hope both parties can learn and benefit from each other.

Thanks onalongsabbatical :)