To think at this point they may as well just end lockdown?

[Ursula2001]

I'm not one of those corona moaners that gets enraged about people meeting two friends rather than the stipulated one for a socially distanced walk. Or people that sit in the garden with a mate rather than go to a busy park.

However, after returning to work a few weeks back I've noticed things change massively since the rules were relaxed. Of course, this was to be expected and the DC saga hasn't helped, but it seems that people are now pretty much going about their summer holidays as they usually would, aside from a bit of social distancing and not being able to go to the pub (although I've seen a good few people drinking pints in pub gardens this week, which makes me assume some pubs are allowing customers to drink their takeout on the premises - maybe this is a loophole as the bar is still technically closed).

I'm just not sure many people would be at much greater risk in a socially distanced office now after seeing the throngs of people out today. It would be better for the economy and from a selfish POV better for people like me - I've been out with our truck drivers doing site assessments this week and most of our customers are absolutely heaving (we do a lot of newsagents and supermarkets etc). Trying to park the wagon has been a nightmare and today's driver said that the daytime is pretty much as busy as normal now as lots of people who'd usually be at work are out buying booze and drinking it in the park. Certainly, a large proportion of people seemed to be walking out with packs of beer today (can tell from the way they stretch the plastic bag).

I'd sooner see these people back at work than thronging around the town centre, but of course that's a vested interested on my part. But for sure people are still just as cunty on the road as ever! All this saucepan bashing for key workers last night but nobody seems able to wait 30 secs for a truck to complete a manoeuvre without laying on the horn (too desperate to get back and drink the stuff we deliver!).

NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

All my doctor and scientist friends are thinking along the same lines.

Sadly, unless people watch extended news reports or read medical literature, people remain oblivious to that and still convince themselves it is like flu or the people getting really ill were already at death's door.

Sorry but this is nonsense. If you've been watching mainstream news you're more likely to be terrified out of your wits and convinced that if you get it your risk of dying is higher than of not dying.

When actually if you've read proper scientific studies it would be obvious that, while this is a serious pandemic and an illness which can be very serious for some, and we need to be cautious and sensible, the risk to the general population is low.

Would it not be easier if everyone was back at work. In controlled SD environments.

There would be less people with time to 'flock in their thousands' to beauty spots.

Seems to me, it would be better to look at getting people to and from work safely, being safer at work.

Even people working in pubs and restaurants. Reduce how many people can come in. Strict rules in how close people can sit etc.

Better than loads of people in a park not SD.

Why would you pay pub prices to drink at home?

In my case, because cask-condtioned real ale is impossible to buy other than at a pub or a brewery shop. Even then most brewery shops sell "bright" beer, which is fine by me but wouldn't satisfy a beer connoisseur.

Mind you, I'm so gagging for a pint, I'd probably drink it in the street on the way home, like some old lush.

I no longer have fantasies about a lottery win or being tall and slender, they're about sitting in a pub garden having a pint. Bottled beer in our own garden just doesn't cut it.

It seems to me, people are very busy socially but still not back at work. If I go out for my run at 8am, when you'd expect roads to be busy, there's no traffic at all but roads are very busy at 2pm.

I think that's true.
DH had to go into his office yesterday to look at the possibility of separating desks etc.
He left at normal time, peak rush hour, when it normally takes him an hour and a quarter to get home, and it took him 45 minutes.
He also said his business park was empty, with about 10 cars parked instead of hundreds.
But more people seem to be out socially. Why wouldn't they be if they aren't at work and it's sunny weather.

NoIdontwatchloveisland I echo exactly what you've said. Lockdown was sensible when we had little idea what we were facing. Now we have a number of weeks statistics, the risk to the general population- particularly those under 40 - is minimal, but elderly face a greater risk.

I'd like to see most things open except places that have large groups or are felt to be most risky so pubs, gyms (sadly), football matches etc. I feel we could have saved ourselves a lot of lives if they'd just called off Cheltenham, Crufts and a few big football and rugby matches in the preceding weeks to the lockdown.

Roxy
Bang on. There was an article to this effect on the BBC, explaining how for most people the risk is low.

This does not mean there are no outliers. There will be a handful of cases where a young apparently healthy individual gets seriously ill or even dies. In the same way that each year, there are a tiny number of cases where people die from comparatively mild viruses like chicken pox. These aren't reported in the press, because they are statistically insignificant, whereas the death of any younger person from covid has been pounced on by the media, in a way that inflates most people's perception of the risk.

I tend to agree with you LakieLady, except for the difference in transmission rates indoors v outdoors. There now seems to be an acceptance that the risk is much lower outdoors.

I don't think offices should go back to work though, not when working from home is possible and assuming children are back at school and nursery. My DH has been told he won't be back in his office til January at the earliest and long term they might implement home working nearly full time, with just one or two office days required per week.

I work for a charity and was permanently home based before all this even kicked off. I cannot understand why more places don't do it - it saves so much money on overheads.

Sorry, I meant Trevsadick

Rookiemere - I think we could also have greatly reduced the spread by targeting care homes. They needed to be an absolute priority for full PPE from day one.

It's over for me after the DC disaster. Taking the train to see my parents next week

Sadly, unless people watch extended news reports or read medical literature, people remain oblivious to that and still convince themselves it is like flu or the people getting really ill were already at death's door

Sorry but this is nonsense. If you've been watching mainstream news you're more likely to be terrified out of your wits and convinced that if you get it your risk of dying is higher than of not dying

That's your opinion. I have mine. I'd still rather not get Covid-19 than get it and will continue to minimise that risk. Others convince themselves they won't get it and if they get it, it will definitely be mild or just like flu in order to continue doing whatever they want. We've a fairly obese, unhealthy, general population and our hospitals could quite easily fill up again if people under 65 go back to life as completely normal.

Yeah, I’m sure the NHS could easily cope with a massive spike in numbers. The old and vulnerable who would die because of it are completely expendable, and the NHS staff who would die because of it, well, we can easily find more nurses, can’t we.

On the plus side, at least we’d stop having all the “Bloody hell it’s back to normal” moans and whinges on here because people are incapable of actually understanding the mechanics of a lockdown and how it is protecting the country.

Would it not be easier if everyone was back at work. In controlled SD environments. There would be less people with time to 'flock in their thousands' to beauty spots.

Only a quarter of the workforce are furloughed. The rest of us are still working.

I think they're experimenting with the parameters. They know now that they can drop the infection rate by saying 'LOCKDOWN!!', and they can put us in and out of lockdown as much as they want. They need to see how much the R number moves according to the level of lockdown. Then they can say 'We need a bit more lockdown than this, but a bit less lockdown than that.'

Others convince themselves they won't get it and if they get it, it willdefinitely be mild or just like fluin order to continue doing whatever they want.

I wouldn't say I fall into that category. I would say I feel I'm quite likely to get it eventually unless I stay inside until there is a vaccine, and I'm well aware that if I get it, it might be mild OR it might be nasty. But the chances of it being mild are much greater than the chances of it being nasty, and the chances of my dying from it should it be nasty are even more miniscule. Anyone who has read the science would know that.

I still haven't seen any convincing argument why, logically, people should be more scared of dying from this than of dying when they get in their car and drive to the supermarket. I suspect it is because we are all used to the risks of driving and have learned to live with and accept them.

I have a family member working on London exit plans and they were saying that it's actually inaccurate to talk about lockdown now and that might just be more confusing.

Also, people seem to forget that not everything is equal risk - some people are acting as though allowing people to meet outdoors the same as opening nightclubs or saying it's just fine for everyone to get on the tube.

@GreyGardens88, I get that.

We may go and visit MIL, now that we can use her lav and sit in her garden. She's 82, and fit and well (amazingly fit, for her age). She hasn't been out since lockdown, and DP's sisters, who are SAHMs and live much closer, have been visiting weekly with her shopping and chatting to her in the front garden, keeping safe distances.

It's less than 40 miles away, we'll take our own food and drink, and anti-bac wipes for when go indoors for a wee. And we think we had Covid in March, so if we're right, risk of infecting MIL will be low.

DP is desperately missing his DGD, too. She's nearly 5, and they change so much at that age. We haven't seen her since the end of Feb.

Others convince themselves they won't get it and if they get it, it will definitely be mild or just like flu in order to continue doing whatever they want

I have a colleague who's just back at work after having it. He's a big, fit, sporty early 40s man who is normally the very picture of rude health. I know Zoom doesn't flatter anyone, but at our TM yesterday he still looked awful. He's aged 10 years, and was ill for over 2 weeks, off work for 3. For most of the 2 weeks he was so ill he could barely get from bedroom to bathroom, and definitely couldn't go downstairs. I was shocked when I saw how rough he looked. His wife had it too, but only mildly.

When we were ill, DP was much worse than me. I find it really weird the way it seems to affect men so much worse than women.

My GP cousin has just had it, along with his wife, and both said if they hadn't known it was covid, they'd have gone to work as they felt fine.

I think they should just advise vulnerable people to stay at home. And leave it up to individuals how much contact they want. A lot of people have had it already but didn't realise at the time.

I think most people have given up on it now anyway. The social distancing thing is only done if they’re absolutely forced to, not many are bothering to adhere to it now. Evidently people think the risk has gone despite thousands of fresh cases and hundreds of deaths every day.

Also it isn’t a harmless virus like the cold. Sure, some people feel fine with it and wouldn’t even know they had it but many people feel absolutely dire and can’t get out of bed.

When we were ill, DP was much worse than me. I find it really weird the way it seems to affect men so much worse than women.

Pah! and there are some women who never understand how bad manflu is !!