To think at this point they may as well just end lockdown?

[Ursula2001]

I'm not one of those corona moaners that gets enraged about people meeting two friends rather than the stipulated one for a socially distanced walk. Or people that sit in the garden with a mate rather than go to a busy park.

However, after returning to work a few weeks back I've noticed things change massively since the rules were relaxed. Of course, this was to be expected and the DC saga hasn't helped, but it seems that people are now pretty much going about their summer holidays as they usually would, aside from a bit of social distancing and not being able to go to the pub (although I've seen a good few people drinking pints in pub gardens this week, which makes me assume some pubs are allowing customers to drink their takeout on the premises - maybe this is a loophole as the bar is still technically closed).

I'm just not sure many people would be at much greater risk in a socially distanced office now after seeing the throngs of people out today. It would be better for the economy and from a selfish POV better for people like me - I've been out with our truck drivers doing site assessments this week and most of our customers are absolutely heaving (we do a lot of newsagents and supermarkets etc). Trying to park the wagon has been a nightmare and today's driver said that the daytime is pretty much as busy as normal now as lots of people who'd usually be at work are out buying booze and drinking it in the park. Certainly, a large proportion of people seemed to be walking out with packs of beer today (can tell from the way they stretch the plastic bag).

I'd sooner see these people back at work than thronging around the town centre, but of course that's a vested interested on my part. But for sure people are still just as cunty on the road as ever! All this saucepan bashing for key workers last night but nobody seems able to wait 30 secs for a truck to complete a manoeuvre without laying on the horn (too desperate to get back and drink the stuff we deliver!).

Why do we have to be so arrogant as a nation that we do things our special way and ignore the costvto jobs, lives and society?

Someone will accuse me of being a boring, hateful leftie, which I am far from, but it seems that coutries with "strong men" leaders, who talk in terms of it being a war against the virus (as Trump did), and promoting an idea of standing up to it, not letting it beat us, taking it on the chin, blitz spirit, etc., have all fared rather badly. See Boris, Trump, Bolsonaro.

Why do we have to be so arrogant as a nation that we do things our special way and ignore the costvto jobs, lives and society?

Because we are led by incompetents.

It's just one big party now.

Bloody hell@Dysonfury, I think you are onto something there.

It's not pointless at all ,
We are still social distancing yes we can see family in small groups but outside where there is less risk .
So many people can't go back to work yet. Yes we are getting back to normal but slowly .
I know people are breaking lockdown but so many are following the rules , just because such and such down the road has had family round doesn't mean ending the lockdown.
I can't comment on workplaces as I'm furloughed but my dh said he is social distancing at all times .
Some workplaces may not be able to have social distancing at all times but your employer must encourage to do so when possible.

People focused on the death figures - you realise that they are a reflection of around four weeks ago as that’s roughly how long it takes to die from this? Also there is a time lag with reporting in a lot of cases.

I'm not sure the 4 week lag thing is an altogether positive given that it's the last few weeks that the nation has been partying, mixing, doing the conga and giving up on lockdown. 4 weeks ago the nation had been mostly locked down for 5 or 6 weeks.

What a load of rubbish that the Government is doing this deliberately so that it can blame the people it needs to vote it back in one day. It’s just an incompetent government with an incompetent leader who, like Trump, makes inane comments that have to be swiftly corrected by the people around him (eg his comments about barbecues, or his bizarre summary of the first stage of lifting lockdown).

I think the lockdown aspect is a bit of a psychological driver. The reality is that there is no vaccine in sight so the world has to go on and people just need to take individual responsibility for themselves and calibrate their own lives in accordance with the level of risk they are happy to accept. The government is no doubt a bit concerned about the potential strain on health services again and keeping lockdown in play motivates before to take things like social distancing a bit more seriously.

People not before

Deydo that's a really interesting angle. I watched interviews yesterday about how woman leader vs men have fared. It was concluded that it wasn't so much men vs woman but that characteristics stereotypically inherent in woman that mean in this sort of situation they fare better. But in different situations other types of characteristics can be preferential.
It kinda led to what you've said. The galvanising we will beat this (as if I'm war) doesn't work when asking people to give up freedoms. Decisiveness and empathy are more successful .

I have several friends who will be using grandparents from Monday - they have to work and the schools won't be having them back yet.... strange that the vulnerable category (not all grandparents obviously) are picking up where the schools think it is not safe!

The VE Day spike did happen...

If Government wants people to exercise common sense and assess the risks sensibly for themselves, then it needs to set that example itself. Instead, we are led by people who think continuing to shake hands with strangers and then to work while ill until they are hospitalised is sensible, and who think that testing your eyesight by driving to a beauty spot is also perfectly reasonable - along with going back into work for the afternoon when you think someone at home has Covid 19.

To those saying they are going to continue staying at home, they're not going to be the Government's Guinea pigs etc, you do realise that you are only able to stay at home because someone else is out at work making sure there is food available in the supermarkets, that dangerous criminals are not roaming the streets and looting your houses, that your bins are being collected plus a whole host of jobs that you probably don't even see or appreciate.

It's such a blinkered "I'm Alright Jack" attitude. As if your and your family's lives are more important than those of the Workers and their families.

@itsgettingweird

It is interesting and there's generally something in it. The irony is the two female Prime Minister's we've had didn't have a shred of empathy between them.

I think it's more that the crisis isn't suited to right-wing populism. US/UK/Brazil the three countries faring worse are testament to that. The more liberal governments are more accustomed to deal with it.

If we go out, do all those police and supermarket workers get to stay home though?
Or will we be adding to the number of circulating people spreading the virus to them while they continue to be out there?

THisbackwithavengeance - except those people staying at home are keeping the bin men, supermarket workers, nurses, etc, safer from infection than the people who are breaking the current lockdown rules, because they aren’t contributing to the spread of the virus.

We do have to start to get back to some sort of normality though, and I think many people are now assessing risk and finding a way forward that works for them. I have never thought there was much risk whilst out exercising in the fresh air.

I'm not underestimating that there is a risk, but you can only catch the virus from someone if they have it in the first place - just getting less than 2m away doesn't mean you're going to get ill. I'm in London, and until the middle of March was in busy theatres, pubs, restaurants, travelling on packed tubes, buses and trains. I didn't get the virus, and I can count on one hand the number of people I know who did. I live in a London suburb and I know of no-one who has been ill in the last 6 weeks. I'm cautious when I go out, and observe social distancing, but I'm not fearful.

At the beginning of lockdown, like many people, I was scared. It felt like an apocalyptic situation, with empty shelves in shops and people looking fearful and anxious. But people have adapted. Queuing to get into a shop, whilst still bizarre, feels normal. Standing at a distance while talking to a neighbour feels normal.

It feels right to move forward as much as possible as long as the R rate stays low.

I'm fed up with the whole thing. If restaurants and hairdressers opened tomorrow I'd be back in there.

It seems to me, people are very busy socially but still not back at work. If I go out for my run at 8am, when you'd expect roads to be busy, there's no traffic at all but roads are very busy at 2pm.

I think currently, while meet ups are outdoors and there's nowhere else open to go, there is still some value in it. Most people I know are not having visitors in their homes, even if they have bent the rules about outdoor groups size. I've always felt that the risk outdoors must be vastly reduced.

If the weather turns so the outdoor meetings are less attractive and when the shops reopen, yes I think it's over.

I think when shops reopen, most employers in all sectors will expect staff back in, if the jobs still exist.

If, as reported, most cases are now in care homes, rather than the community, it is time to be getting everyone back IMO.

Madame yes! That adds more to it. Probably a mix of characteristics and policy beliefs. It's certainly data I'll be interested in exploring when this is over and the outcome of how people fared over the period of time is known.

In response to the basic OP - for me it doesn't feel as if I feel we are anywhere near 'out of lockdown'.

My DH is still not able to work. (builder) His company's sites aren't open yet. Houses aren't selling. Told 4 + weeks still.

My eldest DD manages a GP surgery and they're a million miles away from giving the usual service to the community. She's worried about so many of their patients. No end in sight to that yet.

Two other older DDs are both still unable to work:
One is very non essential retail (£££ jewelry) wont be going back till July at earliest.
Other DD is 'hospitality'. Close personal contact. July at the earliest.

Youngest DD (6) is going back to school on Monday part time in a weird 'bubble' doing her school work on a laptop with a TA.

Me? I've been home schooling DD4 and am a carer for my elderly mum (84, she lives with us). She can't go out round the village anymore or see her friends so is getting a bit mentally stale and insular.

My high point of the week for the last 10 weeks has been my trip to Tesco ... woopy doo Now i can go to a garden center - and i did go - but i can't buy anything as we're watching the cash. It was stressful to take DD4 as she wanted to explore around the plant stands and pet store like usual but couldn't. Looks like our annual weeks holiday is probably canceled this year. (UK caravan). No soft play for DD. No cinema. No restaurants. No end in sight for much of that. In laws are shielding for foreseeable future. Can't have my best mate round in the garden 'cos our DDs (6) are best mates too and they won't play together 2 ms apart.

We live ruraly. Little village and very beautiful scenery but the land you see is owned by people - you can't just walk where you please in the countryside. The land owners round here have asked (nicely) for people to stop marching over their land every day, (even though there are lots of public footpaths). Lambs, rubbish, dogs, touching gateposts ect. Slightly dodgy to do the country park walk 'cos it is a massive circular walk and the loos are shut. Car park is halved and it gets v busy.

Our 2 nearest towns are ghost towns. Tescos is busy yes, but that's about it.

Bored and sick of it.

wow sorry for that ramble!

The fairly educated viewpoint in my social circle (which includes scientists &doctors) is as follows:

• lock down was not a bad decision initially, we were having the unknown and the NHS needed time to gear up.
• we now know far more, including that it's a relatively normal risk, akin to flu, for the majority, but a much more severe risk for a minority of specific groups (the very elderly, the overweight, diabetics etc).
• we also know more about treating it now, and the NHS has had more time to prepare.
• the conclusion among my friends now is that the wider lock down must end, as the mental health, economic and social damage is greater than the covid risk, for the majority.
• however, it must be replaced by very targeted protection for the vulnerable, with care homes being the big big issue.

@PrimeroseHillAnnie I feel massively for those front-line staff who are dealing every day with Covid-19 patients. To go to work each time and face the same conditions and experience so many deaths must be taking a toll on our frontline staff.

Sadly, unless people watch extended news reports or read medical literature, people remain oblivious to that and still convince themselves it is like flu or the people getting really ill were already at death's door.

I don't know what the answer is. I think when people start drinking with their friends and family, all caution will go out of the window and people will start to congregate inside people's houses and won't exercise social distancing. I've played tennis with a friend and the normality of the situation takes over and it's easy to forget and not get closer to the person you are talking to.

Even if most cases have been transmitted through care homes and hospitals, the staff who work in them have family and friends and we can't expect them to hide themselves away. It would be interesting to know where community transmissions occur most. I can't get worked-up about people having a pic-nic on a crowded beach but people should be informed if community transmission starts to go up on public transport, work-places, public toilets, shops etc... We can't really make well-informed decisions for ourselves without that information.