This government is deadly

[Haplap]

I mean very literally here given the 60 000 excess deaths. Not to mention the recent events with Dominic Cummings' version of reasonable and truthful and the Prime Minister's inability to sack him. I'm scared for what this means for the second wave.

I'm shielding and have two young children. I'm 37 and otherwise and fit and well. I'd rather not just pop off in to the statistics with 'underlining health conditions'.

My worry is, incredibly, people voted in this government for four years.

Are there any options available to replace them? Even just the terrible cabinet?

What's the point of having a government then? Really???

Yes. I thought they were supposed to work for us and represent the people and what was best for the country as a whole.

This government is lining its own pockets and looking after the elite.

You can argue about the phrasing of this thread title all you want but the facts we have to date show incontrovertibly that the UK has fared worse than nearly all other countries in the world so far.

Without getting into party politics, the actions and inaction of this government have had a direct impact on our poor outcomes.

• The delay in going into lockdown -we had fair warning weeks before.
• The dangerous, unproven and callous 'herd immunity' theory that initially guided policy,
• Failing (deliberately) to join the EU scheme to get PPE.
• Refusing to stop airtraffic coming into the UK for months (90% of the world took that step but not the UK!).
• No testing or quarantining of people arriving in UK airports at ANY point.
• The abandoning of people in care homes, the forced return of coronavirus positive patients back into care homes from hospitals insuring other residents and carers would be infected.
• The HIGHLY concerning decision to give private companies testing contracts and take over calling centres, essentially using the pandemic to further dismantle the NHS.

Anyone who wants to shrug their shoulders and say ''what could they do, it's an unprecedented pandemic'' should know there was much more the government could and should have done. This Financial Times article demonstrates clearly how tragically awful the UK's experience has been due to completely preventable factors - all due to our government.

www.ft.com/content/6b4c784e-c259-4ca4-9a82-648ffde71bf0

www.theguardian.com/business/2020/may/04/uk-government-using-crisis-to-transfer-nhs-duties-to-private-sector

Exactly, Rainbunny.

Rain bunny 👏🏻

I don't have anxiety. I didn't say you had!

Prominent people breaking the rules does matter as it influences the behaviour of others and in circumstances like these that's very important. I suppose I don't get that! I just look at tthem and wonder what was going through their minds at the time. They don't influence my behaviour at all (possibly because I don't have a family estate or a holiday home )

I am frustrated at the 'they're trying their hardest' brigade. They're not. Look at almost any other country in the world and you can see they're not. No other country had the same base line as any other; the same internal influences as any other; the same preparedness as any other; the same historical experience as any other; the same convenience of logistics as any other.

I am frustrated too, but not because I am certain that the government is actring in a wiflully neglectful manner. But because successive governments didntt heed previous warnings from SARS etc; that we lost our manufacturing base and so didn't have access to much needed supplies if just about anything that would have been helpful.

The things I am most frustrated about have historical roots. I am not convinced any other combination of individual could have done better. Differently, absolutely.

I won't judge or condemn them with hindsight either! That will all come later! It wn't be pretty and I suspect I will change my mind about some things - I'd hope most people will reassess their stance on this... when hindsight starts in say 2025! Mostly all global governments!

Oh god! Again with the absolutes where no exist!

Oh! That Guardia headline! Oddly that is what many other countries did and were praised for! Using all health settings an dall sorts of other comments about the otrher things in your list of "incontravertible truths"

I know what comes next but... I'm out!

You said I was scaring myself. I'm not frightened, I'm angry.

Sadly not everyone applies common sense the way you do.

We have the worst death rate in the world as of today. Read the post a couple below to see some of the reasons why.

So it's not this government's fault? It's previous government's? Trump is that you?

Rainbunny

Refusing to stop airtraffic coming into the UK for months (90% of the world took that step but not the UK!).

I agree with a lot of your points but I'm really not at all sure that's correct.

I can't believe someone posted that Guardian peice as though it supports in the 'evil government' mind set

That article is scrapping the barrel now for scaremongering over the NHS.

Do people honestly believe it would have been more effective for the Government to recruit 15,000 call handlers individually? Or to divert staff from other duties to arrange all of the testing? Or that it would be an unreasonable power grab if they start redistributing ppe between hospitals?

Some people really do just read the headlines and come away with the theory they want.

notimagain

I can't say where the statistics came from on that but I was quoting an avaition analyst called Alex Macheras who was interviewed in GMB. I could only find reference to the interview in this Express article (apologies)

www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1275316/coronavirus-travel-news-uk-airports-flight-restrictions-covid-19-screening-checks-itv-gmb

Bovary, those deaths cited by the oncologist are really sad. If the under funded NHS had not been overwhelmed by the poor management of this pandemic, those treatments could have taken place. You are right to shine a light on that.

Justanotherlurker

The GP's union are very concerned about the outsourcing of testing. They argue the simplest, most cost effective and professional approach would have been to have GPs handle testing, not least because health clinics are less busy than usual, they are trained in administering tests and handling samples and they have existing health records of patients. They can't understand why the government gave no-bid contracts to US firms like Palantir which onvloves giving over patient records.

If you're fine with that good for you. I'm not because I'm not naive. Any US trade deal will require opening up the NHS to private contracting with American healthcare firms.

Haplap

Are there any options available to replace them?

Do you understand what democracy is? Whinging does not overturn the result of General Elections.

HTH

@Haplap

I mean very literally here given the 60 000 excess deaths. Not to mention the recent events with Dominic Cummings' version of reasonable and truthful and the Prime Minister's inability to sack him. I'm scared for what this means for the second wave.

I'm shielding and have two young children. I'm 37 and otherwise and fit and well. I'd rather not just pop off in to the statistics with 'underlining health conditions'.

My worry is, incredibly, people voted in this government for four years.

Are there any options available to replace them? Even just the terrible cabinet?

I don't think this is about Covid-19, I think it is about your dislike for the Conservative Party. Thing is the majority of voters did vote for this government. Keep voting Lib Dem and we'll all be fine.

wonder straightaway into London and infect people

How? We were in lockdown. Nothing was open. Where did all these people who supposedly were arriving in their droves going?? They were mostly returning Brits, who went home and self-isolated, because that what was everyone else was doing.

Also, and perhaps more importantly, before lockdown, the virus was already in circulation in the community. Stopping people from entering the country would have done little. Those countries who locked down earlier, were successful because they had very few cases to begin with. Our horse had already bolted.

If the under funded NHS had not been overwhelmed by the poor management of this pandemic, those treatments could have taken place

The NHS was never overwhelmed due to the amazing work and planning done by those within the NHS. You have no idea how much effort was made in order for this to happen. By the by, several people I know have continued their cancer treatments, and had operations in private hospitals under the NHS. I don't deny many, many people have had their treatments postponed, delayed, or changed, which will undoubtedly cause much misery, but to say nothing at all has been happening is incorrect.

Bash, I think perhaps I have a lower threshold of what constitutes 'overwhelmed' than you do. I'm relieved that several people you know were able to continue their treatment.

but to say nothing at all has been happening is incorrect. Yes, I'm guessing treatments have been risk assessed and those not posing a Covid 19 risk have gone ahead. DH had a skin growth removed just prior to lockdown. He received a letter during lockdown to say that following the biopsy, some further tissue needed excising. We thought we wouldn't hold our breath, but he was 'phoned the following day and was in outpatients 3 days later for the treatment. Hugely impressed.

I agree OP, this 'Jeremy Corbyn would be worse' bollocks is a bit daft really considering we CAN compare how other countries have dealt with it who have other leaders...we are the worst by a long way. There is no way you can twist the figures to blame labour im afraid, no matter how hard you try

CuriousaboutSamphire - I agree with everything you've said - you've articulated it all so much better than I could hope to!

It’s not this government, it’s coronavirus. Unless you are suggesting that they went against WHO advice and closed borders back in January plus track and trace with mandatory testing and isolations. Once it was in and had spread substantially that was it. If they’d had the lockdown earlier it wouldn’t have saved lives long term, it would have just extended the period over which this all occurred because it was too late to contain it. Why doesn’t anyone understand that the purpose of lockdown isn’t to stop people from catching it? It’s to stop too many people catching it at once overwhelming the NHS. The people who are going to catch it and die are going to catch it and die unless they self isolate until there is a vaccine/enough people have developed immunity to reduce transmission rates significantly. There is no proof that a late lockdown saves lives. Take Sweden as a comparison. They don’t have a lock down but their death rate per capita is lower than many countries that have had lockdowns.

It might have been an idea not to let the Cheltenham festival and the Madrid/ Liverpool match go ahead, as Madrid was the epicentre of the pandemic at that time and all social gatherings were banned in Spain, but heyho they all came over to Liverpool, because UK lockdown had not started, although many of us had started self isolating.

We have in this country an inherited culture of exceptionalism. And, as part of that almost subliminal culture of what it means to be British, we've inherited the idea that Britain is an exceptional place filled with exceptional people who have done exceptional things.
Now, when you have a national case of almost total cognitive dissonance,( as witnessed by the rest of Europe who are shaking their heads in disbelief at the situation we're in), you're going to want to continue down this dodgy road of full on jingoistic, fight them on the battlefields exceptionalism. It is a national trait. We are and have been for many a generation, lions led by donkeys.
Thus, we do things differently. We don't follow others or even begin to emulate best practice.
And so....we didn't lock down as early as other countries. We didn't prepare by buying in PPE as other countries did. We didn't quarantine arrivals at airports as other countries did. We didn't implement a national emergency plan immediately as other countries did...because, well, we're special aren't we? You see, we're exceptional and what happens to other nationalities and other countries doesn't happen to us for that very same reason.
The donkeys are still in charge you see.

Some people have a completely different idea of a 'functioning Cabinet' than I do.