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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Tell me the bad things about living in Australia.

511 replies

ilovepixie · 26/05/2020 19:30

Following on from the USA thread what's the worst thing about living in Australia.

OP posts:
ThumbWitchesAbroad · 27/05/2020 06:02

@Blondebakingmumma - is she in primary or high school? My DS2's primary school has aircon, as do most of the others I know, but none of the local high schools do.

We've seen several snakes, but we're in semi-rural NSW. A friend who lived in Townsville, QLD, was in a town where a python was regularly taking small pets. I don't know about the cities, but brown snakes and red bellied black snakes are common where I live. I have a "pet" huntsman called Boris, who is allowed to stay if he stays above the picture rail - he eats cockroaches so I infinitely prefer him to them.

Sexism - endemic, to the point that some locals don't even notice it. There was an ad here a few years ago that got me totally steamed up, for sanitary pads - the strapline was "absorbs more than you ever did in maths". Angry Local friends couldn't see the problem. Still plenty of tradies who talk down to you if you're female, although there are also plenty who don't - you just don't know which you're going to get when you first call them!

Racism - it's more overt here than it was in the UK in the 90s and 00s. But since I left the UK, and Brexit started, the racism over there has increased exponentially by all accounts, so I don't think it's worse here now. But it's like the UK was in the 70s (when I first started noticing it as a child).

Insularity - yes. Especially in a small town, where many people have lived here for generations and married within the community. Outwardly matey, but not interested in being actual friends. Most of my friends are either expats, first generation Aussies, or have moved into the area from elsewhere in Australia. Again, probably different in the much more multi-cultural and mobile populations of the cities.

I still infinitely prefer the weather in the UK - plus the house insulation! Our house is old and whatever insulation it ever had has long ago been eaten by rats and cockroaches. Possibly also the possums that regularly get into our loft space - but sound like small elephants!!

Plenty wrong with the UK too - but for people looking to escape it by moving to Australia, best to know what you're getting into.

timeisnotaline · 27/05/2020 06:14

I don’t get why these comments don’t come in comparison to the uk. Insularity in small towns, absolutely. But I’ve read that many mumsnet threads about I live in a small village and have only been here 15 years so don’t yet count as a local to say hello to. And the posters criticising our government... I’m not a fan but would take it any day of the week over Bojo and his visually impaired doting family man sidekick.
As to the poster who chose a house in a hilly area and says australia is hilly and I liked the flat area I chose to live in at home... seriously? I don’t think we even have mountains.
News today south Australia art gallery has appointed the first aboriginal board member. Cheers to moving in the right direction.

alwayscrashinginthesamecar1 · 27/05/2020 06:51

@PurpleTalkingTrees
I just did. I'm being accused of being negative. Grin

PurpleTalkingTrees · 27/05/2020 07:01

@alwayscrashinginthesamecar1 I will go and contribute 😂😂😂

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 27/05/2020 07:03

@timeisnotaline - are you joking about there being no mountains in Australia? Seriously, are you joking?

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 27/05/2020 07:04

Also, I had no choice as to where I lived - DH is Aussie, we moved to where he's from. No choice.

CovidicusRex · 27/05/2020 07:07

Have to agree with @LJ25 in many ways Australia is more cultured, you just have to seek it out. It has a very diverse population and a very inspiring environment. If you’re British only socialising with other British/British descent people you’re not seeing the real Australia, just the ex-colony forever compared to Britain Australia. The one thing I really miss about Australia is his multifaceted it is. People, while quite private, are also quite welcoming. If you are interested in meeting lots of really interesting people Australia is a good place to do it. In the U.K. you only really get the same variety of interesting people in London/and maybe bath or if you’re mixing with upper class people. Back in Australia it was possible to find yourself having dinner with a booker prize nominee, a ferret breeder, an old school liberal feminist professor, a biologist and, an architect unintentionally. In Britain you don’t seem to get the same kind of diversity in social groups.

CovidicusRex · 27/05/2020 07:08

*obviously 2/3 of afore mentioned dinner party would have lived in at least one other country,

CovidicusRex · 27/05/2020 07:12

@timeisnotaline Australia has several mountain ranges and lots of ski resorts/mountain climbing etc. I’m not sure how you missed it. If you’re in SA they’ve got Mt Lofty which you should have heard of and the Flinders ranges. Interstate some famous ones are the blue mountains and Thredbo.

CovidicusRex · 27/05/2020 07:15

@ThumbWitchesAbroad to be fair they probably would have yard the same line for products aimed at men. It’s just Australian humour. I’m not saying it can’t be sexist obviously, certainly the older generation are worse than in Britain overall. But you might just be looking for sexism where there isn’t any.

justkeepmovingon · 27/05/2020 07:16

@Ozgirl75 yes, we came in the winter but as you said it goes dark at 8.30pm even in the summer.

I know where Australia is, it just didn't factor in my thinking when we visited that we'd be inside so early.

It was a massive negative for us as the people we were staying with just sat inside watching tv from 6.30pm.

Also the patio doors always closed, to stop fly's or keep the house cool, you never get that inside outside feeling that I'd imagined you would.

Hiddenmnetter · 27/05/2020 07:50

So I'm feeling a bit defensive as a colonial expat- the British view of Australian racism is, I think, a distortion and reading a British mentality into Australian culture. This is, I think, because in Britain you largely do not have alienated cultures that haven't adapted to post industrialised society. The closest you would get (from what I've seen) are the West Indian populations that struggle with familial dysfunction (disproportionately high divorce rate/single mothers, etc).

The aboriginal culture is so devastated by alcohol, that when the alcohol laws forbidding aboriginals to drink were repealed in the 70s it destroyed them. This was done because it was felt to be paternalistic and racist to forbid aboriginies to drink, and I certainly understand that view. But the fact of the matter is, aboriginals are, per capita, the highest funded group by government in Australia, by a long, long margin. At the end of the day, it's not that Australians don't care about, or don't want to do anything about aboriginal depravation or social problems, it's that unfortunately it isn't possible to modernize a culture from the outside.

There are many things that are part of traditional culture that are repugnant to most people, like the gifting of children to elders for sex as a token of respect. There was a report commissioned that was released in the early 2000's that detailed the extremely high levels of sexual abuse of children that was (in the words of the report) 'fuelled by rivers of grog'.

The view that Australians are racist is because I think that the British tend to think of racism in terms of 'othering' and about institutional barriers and ingrained attitudes that restrict others (like the class system). That doesn't exist in anything like the same way in Australia. In many socio-economic markers, non-aboriginals are almost all equally ranked in terms of life expectancy, health outcomes and incarceration rates. It's only aboriginal populations where these fall off the scale. Unfortunately it's not something that can be externally addressed. It is something that will have to come from within their own culture to respond (see the efforts of Noel Pearson for example).

To be explicitly clear, I am saying that aboriginal culture is fundamentally incompatible with modern society- traditional living in tribes on the land will never result in meeting the same socioeconomic markers that are expected from a modern society. Hospitals cannot be built and staffed in every remote location. Police and social services and teaching cannot be remotely staffed in every location. Tribal life is difficult, and extraordinarily foreign to almost any idea that you or I might have. Their concept of time is extremely fluid- everything is gauged roughly by the sun, so a European obsession with the time and punctuality doesn't fundamentally work. Concepts of ownership are very different. Aboriginal culture doesn't revolve around private property in the same way ours does, with a clear demarcation of private and public property. If you have something and others in the tribe want it, they will take it, because their view of ownership is tribal rather than individual.

European culture however does require (for instance) time keeping and private property- you won't be able to get and keep a job if you can't keep to time (Aussies are extremely intolerant of people slacking off at work- I've never met a people so hardworking with the exception of the kiwis). If you want aboriginies to meet European socioeconomic markers, then there needs to be a shift in their culture. This, combined with a genetic and cultural intolerance for alcohol leads to really terrible conditions, especially for women and children. Domestic and sexual violence is rife- something along the lines of 80% of children in tribes are the victim of sexual abuse. Part of this is alcohol issues, but part of it is that tribal culture doesn't see a problem with child sexual abuse.

There are some fundamentally incompatible elements of aboriginal tribal culture with modern society- no one wants to be racist, but do not imagine that Australians do not care, or that their society doesn't do what it can. But at the end of the day, you cannot force people to change cultural habits from the outside. When this report detailing child sexual abuse, domestic violence and alcohol and substance abuse was released, the government intervened and sent the military in to lock down those areas in an attempt to reign in some of the worst damage. It was viewed as inherently racist and eventually abandoned, but what else could be done? A quick Google reveals that aus gvt spending is around $20k per capita (of which around 30-40% is infrastructure spending & military). Indigenous expenditure in health and welfare alone is $17k per capita.

I'm aware this has become a very long post, so I'll cap it there, but I disagree that Australians are racist, or more so than average- migrant populations tend to do very well in Australia, and there is a very strong representation of non-white Anglo Saxon in virtually all walks of government and business. There is also a strong banter culture (it would be called in the UK) that people might take for racism, but is genuinely thought of as affection. If you aren't used to it, the Australian penchant for having a go at someone can be viewed as hostile when it's generally affectionate. Your worst enemy is 'a little bit of a bastard' but your best friend is 'a total bastard'. It's about understatement and hidden affectivity.

CountessFrog · 27/05/2020 08:09

That is such an interesting post. Having lived in Sydney, I do understand all of the points you made, not because Sydney is a hotbed if aborigine culture, but because, when I lived there, I tried to understand the country from all angles, read and visited as much as I could.

You put the point so beautifully, I won’t even try to add to it, but it’s such a succinct description. I wonder, on the back of this, what you make of ‘sorry day’ if they (you?) still mark that?

I’m going to say though that the racism I encountered in Australia wasn’t exclusively directed at aborigines, and you do get racism everywhere, I think what surprised me was the casual nature of it. I met lots of Australians at the time (my relatives in Perth included) who would make casual remarks about Asians, Arabs and abbo’s. They’d make them to me despite hardly knowing me. I once bought a second hand item from a guy in inner Sydney and when he found I was British, he started asking me what I thought Of my country being over run with ‘fucking Arabs’ before proceeding to tell me a story about going into hospital and being confronted by ‘fucking Arab’ doctors. I could hardly catch my breath.

I do think it’s more casual in Australia, a lot of things are though (dress, language etc). I also agree that they are a hard working bunch - with a disdain for authority though (no doubt traceable to life as a penal settlement, fascinating).

Thanks for your post, Hidden, I really enjoyed it.

Kittenlicker · 27/05/2020 08:09

Casual racism was very apparent when we lived there but I absolutely loved Melbourne as a city. Very clean and green and friendly. I missed the history of the U.K. though and bars and clubs were not the same. Australian TV was shockingly bad.

Ozgirl75 · 27/05/2020 08:10

@justkeepmovingon I think you got unlucky because everyone I know loves that indoor outdoor life and just tends to have outdoor lights etc for when it gets dark. Mind you it’s only 12 degrees here at the moment in the evening so we are inside now! Different in summer though.

walkingchuckydoll · 27/05/2020 08:11

*@thumbwitchesabroad

@onlyreadingneverposting8 - I agree that you should read this thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3877702-Just-need-to-share-no-solution. Something I never realised about NZ until this thread is that they consider your children to be "habitually resident" in NZ the minute they set foot in the place, so if you have any doubts about going/liking it/wanting to be able to return with the children if you don't like it, DON'T GO.*

The same goes for the UK and every other country that signed the Hague convention

caperberries · 27/05/2020 08:17

I lived in Sydney and Melbourne for several years, if I could live there again, I'd jump at the chance.

Australia has plenty of faults, like most places, but a lot of the complaints in this thread are laughable. No culture in Australia? SMH

Tinkerbell456 · 27/05/2020 08:19

@justkeepmovingon. I’m in Tasmania, and it’s pitch dark here at about ten past five. I live in a fairly Anglo area ( all Tas is really) but I have to say that it is becoming a lot more ethnically diverse. In my observation, different cultures are being welcomed, which is great.

TwistyHair · 27/05/2020 08:32

@onlyreadingneverposting8 have a look at the thread by witchesandwizards I think. It’s titled Just need to share - no solution

TwistyHair · 27/05/2020 08:32

Just seen someone else posted it and even knew how to link to a thread! Unlike me

Takethebullbth · 27/05/2020 08:42

@Hiddenmnetter Brilliant post. As someone who works in a remote aboriginal community, you have articulated the situation perfectly.

eaglejulesk · 27/05/2020 08:46

Great post @Hiddenmnetter - you said it so well. I'm not in Australia (I live in NZ), but I fully understand the problem and there is no easy solution. Very difficult for people from other parts of the world to understand however.

SnowsInWater · 27/05/2020 08:48

I worked in England for 16 years, mainly as an equality/diversity trainer and consultant and encountered much more racism in South East England than I ever have in Australia. If I had a dollar for every time I heard "I'm not racist but...." or had to argue with people who thought the term Paki wasn't offensive I'd be rich (and I am talking about mainly educated professionals). Every country has it's pros and cons, but I am pretty sure most Australians' main sentiment about the UK right now is pity for the poor sods who have to live there.

beingsunny · 27/05/2020 08:55

So I'm English and have been in sydney 11 years,
The worst things are
no M&S,
rubbish chocolate
Clothes are expensive and poor quality
House prices, I live in one of the most expensive suburbs in a 2br apt and manage on my graphic designer salary (though probably couldn't do that in central London)
Spiders are huge!
Winter, most homes have single glazing so are really drafts, it's often warmer outside than in! ( having said that I'm having a glass of wine on my balcony 3 days from the start of winter)
It's a bit sexist
There is casual racism here, though I live in an affluent area so it's not common
There are no nearby towns to visit
Traffic and drivers are dreadful

echt · 27/05/2020 09:03

Australia has plenty of faults, like most places, but a lot of the complaints in this thread are laughable. No culture in Australia? SMH

This.

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