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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Advice on grown up daughter's attitude...

88 replies

redwiner · 26/05/2020 09:25

I have 1 child, a 25yo daughter. She has an almost 3 yo son and is halfway through her 2nd pregnancy. The father of 2nd child is not same as 1st child.
My problem is her attitude towards me, I just don't know what to do. Her biological father and I divorced when she was 5, he moved to the other side of the country and she only saw him around twice a year when he'd have her for a week in the summer then over xmas/New year. I remarried when she was 9, he was absolutely lovely but was killed in a road traffic accident when she was 13. I again remarried when she was 18, and am still with him.
The problems began after my 2nd husband was killed, she changed from a hard working, clever, lovely girl to a rude, selfish, thoughtless girl. I've made so many allowances for her, she's had everything she asked for (within reason), I've paid for her to go on holidays with friends, been a taxi service, she's had all the clothes and things she asked for. When she was 19 she left a good secure job to go and work across town with ponies, this lasted about 6 months before it came to an end. She moved back home but as soon as she got herself another job she was off. That's fine, I've no problem with it but she is, to this day, rude towards me, speaks very off-hand, only comes to me When she wants something. I have her son at least twice week to give her a break (we love having him) but nothing is ever good enough for her.
She's getting married in September (all being well with covid) and im paying for most of it. I've had barely a thank you. She said I would go with her to choose her wedding dress (I didn't ask, she told me) but then got it without me. I'm sure she has made up stories about me to her fiance, she does tell lies I know as previous boyfriends have said things to me which are totally untrue. I know I need to start to back away from her because she's very manipulative but don't want to lose my grandson. How should I deal with her. She messages me umpteen times a day and I try and offer constructive help or advice- then she says I'm interfering, so I say so why tell me? To which she replies that she just thought i should know. Things like the boy is playing up, or has done something wrong. I suggest things to try or reasons behind what he's done and she says I do know that thsnk you. I feel I can't do right for doing wrong, if I don't reply I'm not bothered, if I do I'm interfering!
Where do I go from here? Sorry for the rambling but I'm so tired of it...

OP posts:
Mrsjayy · 26/05/2020 12:24

Yea childhood trauma can stunt emotional maturity .

Mrsjayy · 26/05/2020 12:25

And resilience.

QuestionMarkNow · 26/05/2020 12:26

A few things spring to mind.

  • she is a troubled woman. Loosing the person that was her basically dad probably has a lot to do with that. This would tied up with her change in behaviour
  • what has happened when she was a teen happened. You can't change that and peope saying 'well its your fault beause you spoiled her/whgatever' aren't helping.
  • I suspect that the lies you have heard about are ony the tip of the iceberg. They are BIG lies. I wouldn't be surprised f she is lying about other stuff too that you might not be aware about.
  • the best way I found to deal with stuff like this is passive resistance. Know your boundaries, what you are aren't happy to do. Don't fall into the 'poor her, she had a hard childhood' or 'I am her mum, I have to do A or B' (like you did with the wedding). Whatever you do, you need to do it because you are happy with it so you are never ressentful about it. Once you know clearly what you are happy to do or not (aka what yur boundaries are), just state them very plainly and stick to them. Don't argue, don't react but don't change tact either (Maybe the grey rock is a better definition than passive resistance?). She has abused your kindness because you've let her do so iyswim (learnt myself that from experience. It's hard).
  • re giving advice. Don't. Let her vent to you, listen to her and don't tell her what to do. In transactional analysis, they would say you are then in a parent mode ( or mum mode), so she then falls into a child mode and in particular into the rebellious child who will refuse to do what you've suggested/will lash out. Let her know you've heard her (rephrase, summarise etc...) and that's it. I am sure you will find it hard because, as a mum, we want to help our dc. But that's not where she is. She wants to be an indepedent adult. So treat her like she is one
Dozer · 26/05/2020 12:33

She does sound very troubled.

Would reduce communication with her. Be bland and don’t offer advice/opinions. “Grey rock”, but kindly!

Would reflect carefully - and in consultation with your H - about your new “boundaries” with her, eg time and money, level of communication, provision of childcare. Then stick with them.

Sadly it seems likely that due to her issues and the dynamic between you she may well reduce or stop your contact with your grandchild(ren), at any time.

iano · 26/05/2020 13:27

Op it does sound like there's quite a strange dynamic going on.
Have you asked her if she's angry about something and hasn't told you?
If she texts don't give advice. She doesn't need that kind of parenting anymore. 'Oh dear, sounds like a difficult day' or 'hope he goes to sleep quickly so you can get some rest' is all you need to say.
Don't treat her like a child. She isn't one anymore.
It's so hard as you'll want to fix this, but o think there's little you can do other than acknowledge and mistakes you've made or feelings she might have (even if you feel she's being unfair).

Megatron · 26/05/2020 13:43

I am.a genuinely decent, caring mother who just wanted some advice.

I think that's very clear from your posts OP. I have never said to ignore anyone's posts on here as I always think it's such a rude thing to say, but I do think you should consider some of the posts on here are not from people trying to help or give advice, so perhaps best not to give them too much thought.

NoClarification · 26/05/2020 16:38

I can't help with the brattishness but I sympathise with her about the unwanted advice, because my DM is exactly the same and it drives me nuts. I find it surprising how many people seem to find it impossible to understand that it is not pearls of wisdom that are required when somebody tells you about a problem, it is empathy. Once in a blue moon you might want to give your considered advice on a persistent issue, but that is very different to constant offers of supposedly sage but actually entirely tone-deaf and captain-obvious-level advice. To give you an example, I'd once run out of tins of tomatoes and my mum intones 'I find it useful to buy a couple extra more than I need, that way I don't ever run out.' Even my DH rolled his eyes at that one. What's wrong with just saying 'oh that's a bugger!'

BubblesBuddy · 26/05/2020 21:37

Stick to conversations that mean something. Especially in texts! So let the annoying ones go.

I do think the lying is interesting. People who lie on this scale do want a reaction. Either as the hero or the hard done by. They wish people to sit up and take notice. Attention seeking. So don’t give the lies any attention.

I too think she might tone everything down when she gets married. Thank your lucky stars she’s not invited 200 people! £2000 isn’t much for a wedding these days and it’s kind of you to pay! This might be the best day to start again.

I think your DH might also be able to play a pivotal role here too. Is he making a speech? He could. It might be something that could bring you all together.

Cam2020 · 27/05/2020 10:54

She sounds like she's very unhappy and still relies on you to make, things better for her, which of course you can't do. It sounds as though she has trouble growing up - wants to be independent but still expects to be treated like a, child and is then resentful towards you. I think some counselling might benefit her.

Brefugee · 27/05/2020 11:33

Oh OP, that sounds very difficult. About the wedding you seem to have given her the money already, so that's a done deal - I'm assuming she's not coming back asking for more? If so be strong and say "no". You can't buy her love and respect, and she's not clued up enough to even fake it so let it go.

She messages me umpteen times a day and I try and offer constructive help or advice- then she says I'm interfering, so I say so why tell me?

As PP have said - she doesn't want your advice she just wants you to agree with her that X is totally sucky, and hopefully tomorrow will be better. I started doing that with my DC when they were about 18/19 and it's a really good strategy.

If you don't feel you can do that, you could answer the first message with "oh that sounds horrible - do you want a shoulder to cry on or do you want my advice?" that way she has to decide what she wants from you. Also agree with PP that her DHtobe should be getting more of this stuff from her, not you.

I think bottom line is as long as you make it clear that you love her, you want her to be happy and that you'll be there to pick her up (metaphorically, not financially) if she falls you can't really do much else. She may benefit from some therapy though

SophieB100 · 27/05/2020 11:59

I have two adult DDs in their twenties OP, I found that it works best for our relationship if I only give advice when they ask for it. One in particular is very prone to similar behaviour that your DD is displaying, and things have improved since I've detached a bit. I'm still around, and always will be in an emergency, but I slowly and deliberately detached a bit - I reply to texts, but not always immediately, I don't get hurt so much now, by cutting remarks because I avoid situations where they can be made. It isn't easy, but you must set boundaries. Fair boundaries.

I divorced their dad when they were teens, he was cheating on me, and it was never disputed. The DD mentioned above was furious with me for this, a lot of pent up anger. I get that, the rug had been pulled out from her. She didn't take the rage and anger out on him, because he went off and had little contact. So, unfairly, I was the one who got the full force of her rage and hurt. At a time when I was trying to cope myself. Was it fair? Hell, no. Was it understandable? Absolutely - I was the one she saw as her rock, who she knew loved her unconditionally, that she could vent to, a 15 year old who was breaking inside. We got through it, and we're fine now, but as she got older I realised I needed to make a stand, and put in some boundaries, because she was still treating me unfairly. If I hadn't I would have continued to be her emotional punchbag to this day.

BubblesBuddy · 27/05/2020 12:24

SoohieB - that’s a really good post and very helpful. I find posters who describe young people as brats and other names are not helping. Sometimes DC don’t always behave as we think they should but finding a way to build the bridges and allow the younger person to become an adult is important.

I sometimes find advice is very much wanted but at other times I’m a sounding board and not really expected to offer an opinion or advice. Getting to know when to say something and when not to is a challenge! We all get things wrong! I find my DDs ignore my texts from time to time so even younger people use this technique! Parenting changes as they get older but of course you are always the one person that loves them without conditions attached.

FreshStart01 · 27/05/2020 17:48

Your DD had a very traumatic childhood, one which will probably impact on her mental health for the rest of her life, sorry if that sounds a little bit hopeless. Your own struggles and grief are, I'm afraid, irrelevant to her. She may feel empathy and sympathy for what you went through, but that doesn't change what she went through, and certainly doesn't lessen its impact. She is grieving for that little girl who lost a father figure, and didn't have a biological father around very much.

I very much agree with the PPs that talk about the Parent-Child communication needing to change to Adult-Adult. I think this is very hard for some parents and children to do. We all have our opinions on raising children, and sometimes grandparents feel that they should share those opinions. Please be aware of (and try to remember back yourself to) how sensitive parents are to the opinions of their own parents on how good a job they are doing in raising their children. You may not mean it as criticism, but that sure as houses is what she's hearing it as. I wonder if this isn't just limited to the texts about her DCs and in fact she often feels criticised by you? The wedding dress situation makes me think that she wanted her mum there on the one hand, but then thought about it and didn't want it spoilt by feeling upset and disappointed if it hadn't gone as well as she'd hoped. I completely get this - I had a difficult childhood with a critical father who 'meant well' and I often felt disappointed when what should have been a nice ocassion didn't turn out that way, so now I don't generally look forward to anything and I'd rather be on my own, that way I can't be disappointed and I only have myself to blame if it goes wrong.

I suppose what I'm saying without meaning to upset you is that you have to at least consider the part you play in the relationship you have. It doesn't make you a bad person, certainly not a bad parent, but if you were two unrelated adults then would you get on? Would you put up with this from any other adult, but also would she? People have suggested a fresh start on her wedding day, but I think what you need is a bit of a break from each other, and then try to build something different. I realise that's hard when you want to continue seeing your GC as you are, but that may also have to change.

I do think a wedding is a perfect opportunity for you to tell her how proud you are of her, for all that she has achieved despite what you know was an incredibly difficult childhood, that you love her and you always will. That you know sometimes you come across as critical, but you hope she knows that you do it because of your love for her and your grandchildren, and you're trying harder to be supportive without coming across as judgemental, because you don't mean to be. The main message is that you are proud of her. What you don't do is dwell on 'poor you' or mention the gratitude you feel she should have for everything you've done - no.

If you think it will be hard for you to say all of this, or she might not listen and let you get to the end of what you want to say, then you could writer her a letter. Again I think a wedding is the perfect opportunity to give her such a letter, it won't seem odd, in fact its very appropriate. A marriage is traditionally when parents hands over a child to their new spouse, you are letting go, its the right time.

The risk of stepping back and letting her decide when to contact you is that she then misinterprets this as you being uninterested. What ever happens, please, please, continue to show uncritical caring interest in her children and her life. So: "What are you/they doing?" and then if she replies "Oh that's great, how wonderful, good for you/them!" or "Oh dear, that's a shame, I hope you're ok?" Try to keep your own anger and frustration to yourself if she decides to 'grey rock' you sometimes, she might need to do that for own sanity.

And the lying... I don't know but one thing I've noticed with children whose parents have divorced at primary school age is they do seem to lose their moral compass a bit. I am generalising, but when I think of the children that my DDs have had issues with because they've lied, that seems to be a common theme. I've wondered if this is because they see their parents lying to each other, or lying to them about what's going on, or because they feel that they can't be entirely honest with one parent about the other, and because of their age the lines get blurred so they lie more in general. She may have grown out of it, but due to the additional trauma when she was 13, perhaps it became more ingrained and the lies just got bigger. Its definitely for attention, but it is an interesting psychology when people seem to believe their own lies, or can deny having told one as if they truely have forgotten that they said it.

My DM once told me that their parents happiness is not a child's responsibility. I was feeling guilty about the failed relationship with my father. As a parent, you bring your DCs up the best you can and then you let them go to make their own successes and mistakes. You hope they'll want to have a relationship with you, but they may not and they don't have to. Actually we are all responsible for our own happiness, but you do come across as wanting her to act a certain way with you because you've always done everything you can to make her happy. Is she acting very entitled? Yes. Do I blame her? No. She had a shitty deal, she's still angry, and you don't make up for that loss. You can't.

One question - does she still have a relationship with her biological father? Sorry if I missed that.

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