Advice on grown up daughter's attitude...

[redwiner]

I have 1 child, a 25yo daughter. She has an almost 3 yo son and is halfway through her 2nd pregnancy. The father of 2nd child is not same as 1st child.
My problem is her attitude towards me, I just don't know what to do. Her biological father and I divorced when she was 5, he moved to the other side of the country and she only saw him around twice a year when he'd have her for a week in the summer then over xmas/New year. I remarried when she was 9, he was absolutely lovely but was killed in a road traffic accident when she was 13. I again remarried when she was 18, and am still with him.
The problems began after my 2nd husband was killed, she changed from a hard working, clever, lovely girl to a rude, selfish, thoughtless girl. I've made so many allowances for her, she's had everything she asked for (within reason), I've paid for her to go on holidays with friends, been a taxi service, she's had all the clothes and things she asked for. When she was 19 she left a good secure job to go and work across town with ponies, this lasted about 6 months before it came to an end. She moved back home but as soon as she got herself another job she was off. That's fine, I've no problem with it but she is, to this day, rude towards me, speaks very off-hand, only comes to me When she wants something. I have her son at least twice week to give her a break (we love having him) but nothing is ever good enough for her.
She's getting married in September (all being well with covid) and im paying for most of it. I've had barely a thank you. She said I would go with her to choose her wedding dress (I didn't ask, she told me) but then got it without me. I'm sure she has made up stories about me to her fiance, she does tell lies I know as previous boyfriends have said things to me which are totally untrue. I know I need to start to back away from her because she's very manipulative but don't want to lose my grandson. How should I deal with her. She messages me umpteen times a day and I try and offer constructive help or advice- then she says I'm interfering, so I say so why tell me? To which she replies that she just thought i should know. Things like the boy is playing up, or has done something wrong. I suggest things to try or reasons behind what he's done and she says I do know that thsnk you. I feel I can't do right for doing wrong, if I don't reply I'm not bothered, if I do I'm interfering!
Where do I go from here? Sorry for the rambling but I'm so tired of it...

This is the problem with AIBU, the OP has tried to give part of the backstory ( there will be loads she has not included) so she will not be accused of drip feeding and it’s that that gets the attention. Both parties would have been grieving, she is asking for advice not a character assassination.

The loss of a parent is a different loss to that of a spouse.

For her she didnt have her actual father he abandoned her and then her replacement died. She is stuck there and sees you having moved on

What information is lacking is her relationship with your current husband.

What she needs is YOU, not your money or material things or advice. Just you being there.

How did the period between Stepdad 1 dying and you marrying Stepdad 2 go - did she think this happened too quickly. Are you someone who doesnt like being on their own and therefore she never felt that she was enough for you.

What are the lies she has said by the way - are they lies or are they simply how she was feeling about things that you disagree with

The problems began after my 2nd husband was killed, she changed from a hard working, clever, lovely girl to a rude, selfish, thoughtless girl.

Really? I would have thought she'd turn in to a grieving, confused, sad girl in a household where others were also grieving and confused and sad.

user1635482648 the daughter is behaving like a spoilt little cow, so it's entirely appropriate to call her as much.

Boo hoo, her real dad was out of her life at 5. For all we know, she had a limited relationship with him or wasn't too bothered, she may not even remember a time when he was around (plenty of adults can't remember further back than the age of 8 or 9). She then had a good relationship with her first step dad, who sadly died. Yes that is sad BUT she now has another step dad who she also has a great relationship with. And her mum. She's exceptionally lucky to have all this, yet she clearly has no appreciation for it whatsoever.

And you don't get to play up as an adult for this stuff. It has been made very clear to me in my life that despite being exceptionally close to my mother, I don't get to use any grief I may have felt as an excuse for bad behaviour, because everyone has shit happen to them, and it doesn't make you worthy of special consideration. The daughter would do well to learn this.

@Jojobar have you studied anything on attachment or child development or trauma?

OP, you would have done better posting this in a different section. AIBU brings out some very bitchy posters who will blame you for everything.

I agree with @Zaphodsotherhead. It's as though she got stuck at the age of 13. The only way through it now is to treat her like an adult - never bring up childish things she did - and to ask her how she thinks she should deal with things. Perhaps just leave off any advice and encourage her to think for herself. Does she ever read any parenting books? I found them really useful and could take advice from them much more than I could off another person, who I thought wouldn't understand.

What's her partner like?

@Notredamn I didn't say it upset me, I said it was a horrible post. It's quite possible to give an honest opinion without trying to make the OP feel even more shit than she already does. There's absolutely no need for that.

AIBU brings out some very bitchy posters who will blame you for everything.

Yep, as evidenced on here under the guise of 'just being honest'.

Just one thing to think about... you are the one constant in her life, you are the safety, therefore the one thing she can (albeit very messily) throw her emotions at. She can get angry and push at you because she knows you are her mum and you will be there.
Talk to her, tell her you think your communication with each other is missing the mark, how can you work together to make it better.

We cant tell from here if she is acting like this because she is spoiled, or if it's in response to past trauma (eg sub consciously pushing you away before you leave her like her other parent figures). In either case I dont think you can probably do much to change her behaviour unless you want to risk alienating her. If she does something that upsets you next time you could try saying 'when you do x it makes me feel y' but make sure you dont bring up past behaviours and resentments otherwise you will fall out. Just address each behaviour each time it happens and concentrate on how that makes you feel. You've committed to paying for the wedding and it should be a gift without any expectation and if you started putting conditions on it now or were considering withdrawing the money then I wouldn't as it will damage your relationship for ever. I wouldn't offer to pay for anything similar going forward though as it doesnt help your relationship and it just adds to the hurt you feel because you dont have the relationship you want.

When she texts you for advice I think she just wants a safe space to moan and vent. If she wanted advice she would say 'what do you think I should do about his behaviour'. Just sympathise and don't try and jump in with a solution even if she is doing it a different way to you or you think she is obviously doing something 'wrong'. Say something like 'oh no, that sounds tough', something bland.

I wouldn't dream of asking for the money for wedding back and have never said I would. I offered it, she took it, end of.
The reason I mentioned about what I'd done for her was just to give an example, and to show that I never acted selfishly or wallowed in my own grief or sorrow...we would talk about her step dad and go through photos, kept in touch with his family...still do. They get on famously with husband number 3.
The lies she would tell are things like saying I was going to give her a lump sum of money but changed my mind (not true) saying I used to hit her as a teenager and pushed her down the stairs (not true) saying I'd promised to sell the house and give her half the money (not true) . Telling people at work shed bought her flat (not true) I don't know where these ideas have come from but i have been told the same story, or versions of them, from multiple people so I know she is doing it. They either seem to be designed to make me look bad, or her look good.

@Megatron I disagree 🤷‍♀️ I'll post what I like when asked for an opinion and I agree with most posters.

When you say she contacts you multiple times a day and you reply with constructive help or advice, is she actually asking for it? She may think that you spend the whole time telling her that everything she's doing is wrong. Sometimes help and advice can be taken as criticism.

I think this situation is really fixable and part of a relationship that often happens when the DD is growing into adulthood but the DD/DM relationship hadn’t quite morphed into an adult relationship. I think you need to talk to her openly about the fact you feel you’re getting it all wrong and ask her what she feels cross with you about (I’d put money on it being you treating her like a child). I was a spoilt brat who went through trauma (not a severe as your DD) and my relationship with my DM was awful after my DS was born - the relationship needed to adjust and it has.

@Notredamn Umm, ok? Whatever you get a kick out of, you crack on ...

These are quite big lies @redwiner. She does sound really troubled, have you asked her about them? I wouldn't take the money back for the wedding either, she didn't ask for that so understand your position there.

There is a lot of trauma here on both sides. 13 year old can be foul without dealing with the horrors of a father figure dying. I don't mean to be rude but you sound very judgemental. She has two children by two fathers. You sound like 'she dumped in a secure job when she was19 to work with ponies'..........my DC if they did this I might not be happy but 19 secure job ?? really. I encourage her to fill her dreams.
I would back off and reflect and get counselling for me. Sounds like YOU had a lot to deal with. My ex suggested I needed counselling when in fact it was him -who needed it.

She sounds like she is so unhappy and insecure she has to lie to make a parallel universe. She actually sounds quite dangerous. You sound like a wonderful Mum OP if a little too soft.

Why are you discussing finances and various matters of your relationship with multiple people and her ex boyfriends?

I agree with others she needs emotional support and she sounds angry with unresolved issues. Giving solutions when she is venting about her day might actually be unwanted opinions.

It sounds like she has unresolved issues which she is taking out on you and you are not aware of the place it’s coming from. Not intentionally.

Megatron, no I havent asked about these specific lies but in the past I've subtly said oh, x said you'd mentioned ... and she always manages to turn it around so it sounds like the other person has got the wrong end of the stick...
Anyhow, thank you for not criticising me as some others have - I am.a genuinely decent, caring mother who just wanted some advice. I've been given plenty to think about 😊

Those are huge lies and she does sound very troubled. I wonder if someone other than yourself, perhaps your husband or another relative should mention this at an appropriate point? She will be defensive obviously but it’s just not acceptable to tell lies about anyone.

I would also step back emotionally and be kind, supportive and steady but less available to her. Texting all day and then being unpleasant is not ok. It’s unhealthy and shows she has an unusual reliance on you.

She may still mature more but you can set firmer boundaries and I suggest you do.

Those are whoppers! I don't really know what else to say or advise maybe a step back she sounds really messed up and trobled.

Troubled* by stepping back I mean emotionally She isn't going to be grateful she is expecting you just to pick up after her.say all the right things don't offer her advice take your grandchild because you want to spend time with them and not to give her a break this might change the dynamic a little bit.

Again, they sound like the kind of 'wish fulfillment' lies that a young teenager would tell (apart from you pushing her down the stairs, but, yes, I can see a troubled 13 year old coming up with that one). Are all the lies designed to make her look good? She sounds desperately insecure about herself and her own identity.

I still think she's only thirteen in her head. Somehow she hasn't become an adult, she's still the little girl whose stepdad died. I don't know if there's a mechanism by which this happens, but she almost sounds as though she's not matured past the point at which he died. Buggered if I know how you'd help her though, if she won't engage with counselling.

Maybe when she messages you, it is not for advice but sympathy and a listening ear. Perhaps you could try these rather than come up with solutions or advice, which she will then rail against. Perhaps she just wants a nice Mum to turn to, rather than a problem solver.

There are theories that trauma can stunt emotional growth. Maybe she is stuck at at 13 due to the huge losses she suffered at a young age? The lies would support this.