to think Irish PM Leo Varadkar should hold a press conference to explain why he flouted his own lockdown rules?

[Hypocraticoats]

One rule for politicians and another for the plebs?

Cross post - your future is not shaped by a test at 10yrs old in NI. (And I say that as a parent with 2 in grammars and 2 most likely to go to non-selective)

HTH

My dh's family (U.K.) cannot understand why my 6yr old doesn't know or even do all of her times tables in school yet!! I am fed up of trying to explain it to them!

I agree with pretty much everything you've said, @LaurieMarlow.

I moved back from the UK to Ireland with a primary-school-aged child this year, and although he got less than three months of school before lockdown, he was clearly well ahead in maths and English, which was fine, as I wanted him to be able to concentrate on sociability (and Irish). However, I found the pressure on teachers and kids for the Year 2 SATS in the UK quite mad, and the system rather joyless, despite the fact that DS had excellent teachers, and was at an 'outstanding' school.

I gather that Irish children catch up by later primary, and I far prefer to broad base of the Leaving Cert to the crazily early specialisation of the UK secondary system.

The NI system is (a bit) unfairly maligned I think.

While 11+ does loom large, most of the secondary schools are also amazing and provide a better learning environment for many children than the grammars.

I grew up there and know many people who went to secondary schools and I wouldn’t say any of them were held back by it, quite the opposite. Many outperformed their grammar school colleagues in the end.

@alittleprivacy

Leo’s sister Sophia is actually the deputy medical director of Great Ormond Street hospital and is a paediatric neurosurgeon. She was head girl of Kings Hospital School in her day - Leo didn’t make head boy - and is very much considered the star of the family in some circles

@Anne8850 Thanks for the clarification. I read the midwives thing somewhere when Leo started doing telephone triage work. I'll double check stuff like that before I post in future.

@alittleprivacy. Wasn’t getting at you at all. I often see it said about her, don’t know her but I think it must be galling for her at some level to have her fantastic work so overlooked

When I say 'UK', I do realise there are differences -- my experience was in England, in a state primary.

Yes, apologies my language was sloppy.

So@Avoca you said you live in NI for the education. What specifically is the difference? Standards, attainment, funding?

To my knowledge Leo's other sister, Sonya Varadker is a midwife.

Much less pressure in NI than in England at primary level. Scotland would be similar to NI in this respect.

Much more focus on the right things (imho) like education, socialisation etc than fining people for taking a day off to go to a family wedding!

The way of choosing/allocating schools is better here too. It’s far from perfect but it certainly isn’t the big stress attack of the English system. The Scottish system of just going to your local school is good in principle but it removes the element of choice for parents and ends up making distinctions based on wealth as the “better” schools are in more expensive areas. If you get dumped in a crap school, it can be hard to avoid it. Placing requests are a thing and in some areas can work, but in other areas they simply don’t as too many people are trying to avoid the shit schools and therefore apply to the better schools and there aren’t space for them.

I HATE the Scottish curriculum for excellence. It is a pile of shite.

I appreciate the comparison between. A-levels and Leaving Cert in terms of breadth of education. A similar comparison is often made with the Scottish system but we found the opposite to be true. The BGE in S1-S3 at my DC’s school offered less subjects than any secondary I know in NI (grammar or non-selective) - the combining of history, Geography & modern studies into one subject was a particular bugbear of mine. At S4 when doing Nat5s our council area limited students to 6 subjects - Maths, English & 4 others. No exceptions allowed. The most that other council areas would offer is 8 - a real contrast to 9/10/11 GCSEs. You would then go on and do perhaps 5 Highers and maybe 3 AHs but you still end up with (usually) 3 subjects at the end of school while having specialised sooner than in the N.Irish/English system.

I agree that there is a cultural difference in how teachers/teaching/education is respected and appreciated. I can’t really speak for England because our experience there was generally good in terms of how people viewed the school/teaching, but in Scotland there is definitely a lack of respect. Teachers have a lot less authority in Scottish schools than they do in N.Irish schools - I think in large part because there is no choice in where you send your DC. Here in NI you choose your school (or at least state a preference) so you can be reasonably expected to follow the rules because you chose to go there.

Sorry - that was really rambling!

On the downside - our schools are chronically underfunded here in NI - but I think that’s the same across the whole of the UK to be honest!

Homescar
Re the surprise of some UK posters that Connell and Marianne, despite the big difference in their parent's earning power, were in the same second level school.
In times past Marianne would probably have been sent to a convent boarding school but that option isn't there now. There are very few boarding schools in Ireland now.

Doesn’t NI get the highest A level results across the U.K. year on year?

Re comparing an ROI /UK 6 year old in terms of attainment - we start school later here (many at 5 and a half ) so an English 6 year old likely to have had more formal schooling by that point.

Worked as a teacher in both systems. Both have merit. Ireland seems to do particularly well in international measures for literacy.

Yes it does Bosco. GCSEs too I think

I think NI is something of a halfway house. No SATS, but has the transfer test. GCSEs and A Levels, but the attitude to education is probably more similar to ROI than England (based purely on MN). Teachers are respected and education valued in a similar way to ROI in my experience.

I really quite fancy Leo
totally missed point of thread

This is very niche but I have to say one thing I noticed when teaching in Ireland.

The boys (typical teenage boys, nic lads) were polite and hard working in the lessons but when I would read their essays, I was blown away. the writing was so poised, poetic, expressive and just delicate. It's the kind of thing that you do get in English essays about literature but I was amazed at how many could write well, there. They all wanted to be engineers and I used to think inside that it was such a waste and such a myth that these young men were seen as unexpressive when they actually could write fantastically. I used to love reading their essays. There was a whole other level of engagement and tone that I never quite found teaching A'level - we are much more formal and conscious of delivering a specific tone.

but I was amazed at how many could write well, there.

I mean, within a class. You normally get one or two in a class that can write like that but there it was 9-10.

A nation of Conells basically 😂

@Bosco

I haven't seen it yet but I did think to myself that there must be a literary gene that is unique to the Irish. A way with words, for sure.

Did the OP ever bother to come back after it was pointed out to her that she was completely wrong?

I think there is a general culture in all of Ireland that's different to England. Broadly speaking we what dc to work hard but don't hothouse them.

Moved back to Ni 7 years ago & school is great - there isn't a bad school in the town. Lots of my friends are teachers in Manchester & have constant issues with the system. Another moves back to Dublin & teaches there & is much happier