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Original poster

Girl challenging abortion law on grounds of disability

902 replies

User273648 · 24/05/2020 08:00

I've name changed for this. A girl is challenging the right to abortion on the grounds of disability as she has Downs. I'd be really interested in opinions.

Personally, I have a cousin who has Downs. She is low functioning (the girl challenging is clearly high functioning as she lives alone supported by carers). My aunt and uncle struggle with it. My aunt admitted once that she had cried for the first two years. They found out at birth. She obviously loves her daughter but given the choice of the same child not having Downs' Syndrome she would wish for that.

Obviously this a very sensitive topic - I'm not intending to upset anyone...just listen to other points of view.

YABU - the law should be changed so it's equal regardless of disability
YANBU - the law should stay similar to how it currently is.

www.dsrf-uk.org/downrightdiscriminationcase/

OP posts:
WotnoPasta · 26/05/2020 15:34

@babbez you need to read the full thread, cleft lip can also mean the skull isn’t fully formed and a whole range of issues. There is a broad spectrum of severity associated with it.

ThePriceIsNotRight · 26/05/2020 15:36

The ‘justification’ is that women abort, whether you approve of it or not, whether it’s legal or not.

The reality of your opinion becoming law is an increase in botched abortions, deaths, and infanticides as women are driven by their desperation not to be pregnant. Sure, maybe for you there are worse things than being pregnant with an unwanted child, but that is clearly not the case for women facing that situation and choosing to risk injury and death to abort.

MarieQueenofScots · 26/05/2020 15:36

We normalise abortion too much

Not possible. IMO there is still too much stigma surrounding abortion.

I still find is astonishing people will argue a male has rights over a woman’s body.

ThePriceIsNotRight · 26/05/2020 15:38

And abortion is ‘normal’. In the UK alone 1 in 3 women have an abortion. Furthermore, It has existed in one form or another for as long as women have been giving birth, and will exist for as long as we continue to.

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 26/05/2020 15:40

We normalise abortion too much

All medical procedures should be normal!

growinggreyer · 26/05/2020 15:41

Why have you put bodily autonomy in scare quotes, bathsh3ba? Don't you think it is a real concept? Or maybe it's just that you think women should have no choices.

Gimmecaffeine · 26/05/2020 15:46

I'm saying that I disagree it is all about her rights and that there are worse things than giving birth to a baby you don't want.

Tell that to a woman who ingests poison to try and end her pregnancy.

I am not an incubator. Forcing me to endure a pregnancy and birth and hand waving this away as 'not the worst' is an exercise in wilful ignorance on the dangers and realities of childbirth.

That you'd say this is the right thing for potentially a 6wk pregnancy based on what the father thought is honestly despicable and devoid of empathy.

1forsorrow · 26/05/2020 16:50

All medical procedures should be normal! Everything? Extreme plastic surgery, FGM, genital reassignment.

MangoFeverDream · 26/05/2020 17:35

Firstly I believe life begins at conception so I think the foetus's rights need to be considered

They are considered, which is why we have a 24-week limit for an otherwise healthy fetus. So it’s not all weighted on a woman’s choice.

That said, the forced birth rhetoric is odd considering that if you find out you are pregnant after 24 weeks (it happens, you even see it here), you will be ‘forced’ to give birth.

We as a society have decided this is fine. I’m fine with it too, since it is such a small number of women affected and there’s not many people advocating to change this.

MangoFeverDream · 26/05/2020 17:38

I really wish they had tests for autism in pregnancy back then. Hopefully they will soon. It's no life to live at the severe end

I’m sorry for your experiences. I too am hoping they can find a genetic cause so this option will become available to more expectant mothers. It really is unfair Flowers

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 26/05/2020 17:45

I worked in gynae theatres during my nurse training and assisted with terminations. During my gynae rotation I assisted with late term abortions.

My decision was that I wouldn't have an abortion but I support any woman who does have one. As upsetting as late term abortions are my view is that is always preferable to an unwanted child being born or being subjected to neglect or abuse because they weren't wanted.

pointythings · 26/05/2020 17:47

This reply has been deleted

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HeatherIV · 26/05/2020 19:05

I actually agree that life starts at conception. I think people try and say otherwise to try to make abortion more palatable. Let's call a spade a spade, you are killing somthing that is your child, just in the very early stages of development.

But, until that baby leaves the mother's body, it is not a human in its own right with rights of its own. It is an extention of that woman's body, and so if she does not want to support that life in her body - for ANY reason - then it's her right to terminate that life. You can't tell someone what to do with their body.

Futhermore, it is kinder to end a life before it has really properly started if it's going to be unwanted, born into unsuitable circumstances or going to stuffer health problems or disabilities.

My sons life is hard and painful and will always be hard and painful. It will probably get worse as he gets older and I'm unable to manage his care. It would have been better to end his life in pregnancy and give an able bodied typically developing child the chance of life.

MarieQueenofScots · 26/05/2020 19:32

I actually agree that life starts at conception. I think people try and say otherwise to try to make abortion more palatable. Let's call a spade a spade, you are killing somthing that is your child, just in the very early stages of development

I genuinely don’t believe that. I don’t believe a 6 week old foetus is a life. It has the potential to become the life of your child if you want it to and everything goes as it should.

changeitupagain · 26/05/2020 19:36

If anything an implanted fertilised embryo is a parasite, if you want to 'call a spade a spade', that's what it is.

A parasite - an organism that lives in or an another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the others expense.

Yes that parasite can grow into a baby with time but that is at the woman's expense. And no person should have to put their body through something at its expense if they are not totally willing to.

LolaSmiles · 26/05/2020 19:40

Instead of campaigning to limit women's bodily autonomy, why doesn't this woman direct her energy into campaign for more disability awareness and a society that better caters for those with disabilities?

Abbccc · 26/05/2020 20:14

I still find is astonishing people will argue a male has rights over a woman’s body.
I don't think anyone is saying that at all. They are saying that men might also want a say over what happens to their potential child. An abortion isn't just another medical procedure.

1forsorrow · 26/05/2020 20:15

@pointythings well they are done by doctors, don't know what is classified as medical. The third example I was thinking of was a baby born with what I think they term "ambiguous genitalia" I know a couple who had a baby with this condition and as quite a small baby had surgery (which I imagine would be quite painful) to make their genitals "acceptable" Is that a normal medical procedure? I thought it was quite barbaric.

1forsorrow · 26/05/2020 20:16

Yes that parasite can grow into a baby with time but that is at the woman's expense. At 38 or 40 weeks it has grown into a baby hasn't it?

MarieQueenofScots · 26/05/2020 20:18

I don't think anyone is saying that at all. They are saying that men might also want a say over what happens to their potential child

But the only way they can have that is by having the right to dictate what a women does with her body. That’s a pretty abhorrent thought.

An abortion isn't just another medical procedure

An abortion is a medical procedure. There should be no stigma attached to accessing a legal, medical procedure.

pointythings · 26/05/2020 20:21

1forsorrow I would find that barbaric too. I would hope that most parents would allow intersex characteristics to stand and let their child make the choice when of an age to do so, unless there was an urgent medical need for it to be otherwise.

changeitupagain · 26/05/2020 20:21

@1forsorrow

You are completely taking my point out of context. I was replying to a poster saying life starts at conception and clearly said in my post that a fertilised implanted embryo is a parasite - not a 38 or 40 week foetus.

1forsorrow · 26/05/2020 20:35

@changeitupagain sorry I thought the discussion included late abortions.

Lardlizard · 26/05/2020 20:36

It would probably be easier if abortion was just removed from the legal system at all

bumbleymummy · 26/05/2020 20:39

Scientifically speaking, no, a foetus is not a parasite. They are the same species for a start.