Girl challenging abortion law on grounds of disability

[User273648]

I've name changed for this. A girl is challenging the right to abortion on the grounds of disability as she has Downs. I'd be really interested in opinions.

Personally, I have a cousin who has Downs. She is low functioning (the girl challenging is clearly high functioning as she lives alone supported by carers). My aunt and uncle struggle with it. My aunt admitted once that she had cried for the first two years. They found out at birth. She obviously loves her daughter but given the choice of the same child not having Downs' Syndrome she would wish for that.

Obviously this a very sensitive topic - I'm not intending to upset anyone...just listen to other points of view.

YABU - the law should be changed so it's equal regardless of disability
YANBU - the law should stay similar to how it currently is.

www.dsrf-uk.org/downrightdiscriminationcase/

@squeekums @pointythings @Xenia @Hugt - totally agree with you (& others who also agree with you). It's about protecting women's rights to choose and not eroding those rights that are key. Either leave the status quo or increase it to term for all abortions - anything else is an erosion of women's rights.

Are the various groups behind this challenge going to fund the special education system? The additional medical costs? The additional medical support such as physio which seem to disappear after leaving school?

The ongoing care for both the person with the disability but also the financial care for the parents?

Some people with disabilities can and do have a normal life, quite a few don't.

It's not a one size fits all scenario.

The woman for some odd reason should have some form of say in her own body. It's her body.

Abbccc
life isn't "imposed" on someone who is already alive

Life, as in ongoing life, is frequently imposed on babies.

Babies that would not survive after birth without modern medical intervention. Babies, like the one in the Guardian article linked earlier, brought to term but with no ability to move or swallow, but live in constant pain or discomfort.

John Kennedy, ‘The Boy Whose Skin Fell Off’ spoke candidly about how he felt that his life had wrecked his mother’s life (she didn’t contradict him, much as she clearly loved him), and how his life had been with constant suffering. He said that if h had a child dx’d before birth with his condition, he would terminate. He was looking to his death as release. When he died both his mother and brother said it was a relief to see his suffering end.

Rack of us is a tiny cog in the great history of time. All mortal. While value for our species must remain high, maybe we should ask ourselves why we are so afraid of death and loss of life. Why we, esp in the West, tend not to view death and loss as a part of life.

Lardlizard That is incredibly offensive, I'm shocked I'm reading this on Mumsnet. You do know that they are parents on Mumsnet who have severely disabled DC, who may be looking on here. I'm reporting your post.

It’s not offensive to say alotnof peopel can’t cope esp when you add in lack of money, lack of family support, depression, mental health issues

Not everyone with ds
Is happy and sunny
And high functioning

And guess who ends up being the carer most of the time? Yep the woman

People in general do not understand the scale of ds from peopel that can even go to work to people. That can’t even talk or go to the toilet or feed Themselves

And to be honest I find it offensive that some people want to try and force women into this

buildingbridge I do not see how that post was offensive. Maybe a different POV to yours, but that doesn’t make it worthy of being deleted!!

Can't cope is different to "ruin the siblings life" and the "parents", indicating that their disabled DC shouldn't be bored.

If one person want to choose that life
Good for them
But don’t try and force it on others, other women

buildingbridge you cannot deny that having a disabled sibling will have an impact on someone's childhood. No matter how wonderful that disabled sibling is, they will have the bulk of parental attention, their needs will be prioritised. That is absolutely something people who already have children should consider when deciding whether or not to go ahead with a pregnancy where there is an issue. Nothing offensive or controversial about that whatsoever.

Either leave the status quo or increase it to term for all abortions

I'm pro choice and I've campaigned for legal abortion in my country, but I can't get behind allowing all abortions to term. In cases of fatal foetal abnormality and risk to the mother's life yes, but terminating a healthy pregnancy at 35+ weeks is horrific. And yes, I know a case like that would be extremely rare in reality, but it can happen if the law allows it.

Oh please, no one it's forcing it on others. No one is saying that women should be forced to have a child. I repeated myself numerous time that I don't think we should ban abortions, I don't agree with the lady's campaign.

But your post is highly offensive to parents who already have severe disabled DC. I hope nothing happens to you that your own family view you that your new condition has ruined their lives. At the end of the day, the disabled DC is innocent. It's posters like you that we won't really see disabled people being inclusive in society.

pointy of course it doesn't. But to say it has "ruin" their lives is incredibly offensive to people who already have existing DC's. Urge, I can't cope with some people on this thread, who are clearly disabilities, I'm bowing out.

Of course it’s trying to force it on others that the whole point !! Ffs !!

*of course it does. That should say.

Ruin the the siblings lives

Ruin is a really strong, emotive word. I wouldn't say this about my childhood growing up with a severely autistic sibling, challenging and difficult as it could be at times.

You might not, but some would

@Lardlizard I think your point is reasonable but you should be more considerate of the feelings of parents with disabled children on here. There was a less distressing way to say this.

We need to be able to speak freely
I don’t agree with people that they want to force people into having babies they can’t cope with, in fact I think that’s offensive, but I respect their right to voice it

some people would say it’s ruined their lives and the lives of their other children
Broken up families, caused poverty, physical exhaustion, emotial burn out, the siblings miss out on time and attention, love in a stressful household

Of course it’s not always this way
You could have parents with a a very strong loving marriage, extended family ready and willing to help, money to pay for support and help And no need to worry about bills
And of course some children will be very very high functioning even able to hold down a job and live independently

Yet others will be full time dependent

The siblings may have less time or attention (I certainly did), but this doesn't mean their lives are ruined. Something can have a significant impact without making life not worth living.

So you know any sibling of a disabled petson who has said their life had been ruined? I know one parent who said this, but I think being a parent is quite different to being a sibling.

You can speak freely, but suggesting that parents of disabled children have ruined the lives if their NT children is obviously going to be upsetting.

Ruin the the siblings lives

As in experience broken nights throughout your education because your older sibling screams and bangs ?
As in suffering anxiety because you grew up watching your older sibling punch your Mum?

As in eat all meals aged 6 onwards locked in your bedroom for protection from sibling ?

As in never go on a family holiday or even go out for the day?

Have parents living in poverty because many families with a severely disabled child do?

This is the life of one ‘young carer’ known to me.

Of course, all family members love that seriously disabled member. But they would readily agree that their lives are more than ‘challenged’,

I have a disabled child. I fight discrimination against disabled people. I have close friends and colleagues who are disabled but it is quite simply dishonest not to discuss the implications for some extreme conditions, for the disabled person and their nearest and dearest.

Yin, I agree. We should not be forced to sugarcoat it. For some families it does almost ruin their life so that is why we give mothers a choice currently and it is better that is not changed.

I’d have more respect for these movements if they actually showed the full range of disabilities and severity. Showing only a high functioning person with DS is not representative of what everyone’s experience is like (and not our experience of it at all).