Girl challenging abortion law on grounds of disability

[User273648]

I've name changed for this. A girl is challenging the right to abortion on the grounds of disability as she has Downs. I'd be really interested in opinions.

Personally, I have a cousin who has Downs. She is low functioning (the girl challenging is clearly high functioning as she lives alone supported by carers). My aunt and uncle struggle with it. My aunt admitted once that she had cried for the first two years. They found out at birth. She obviously loves her daughter but given the choice of the same child not having Downs' Syndrome she would wish for that.

Obviously this a very sensitive topic - I'm not intending to upset anyone...just listen to other points of view.

YABU - the law should be changed so it's equal regardless of disability
YANBU - the law should stay similar to how it currently is.

www.dsrf-uk.org/downrightdiscriminationcase/

There is a shortage of doctors in the UK who are prepared to perform late terminations, which is why some women face agonisingly long waits.

It should be as early as possible and as late as necessary for all pregnancies. If they want to decrease the small number of abortions after 24 weeks for medical reasons it would be better if they campaign for more support for disabled people and their carers.

I wish we would all stop talking about women's choices here. A baby is created by two people. I can't condone the idea that a woman can choose to terminate alone. It's as much a man's right. Yes the woman is carrying the baby but she chose that as a possibility when she chose to have sex.

In reference to the above that quite clearly dies not apply in the case of non consentual reasons for falling pregnant.

It's as much a man's right

So a man can force a woman to have an abortion?

Yes the woman is carrying the baby but she chose that as a possibility when she chose to have sex

And the man chose to have sex meaning a pregnancy is a possibility. His right to an opinion ends there.

It is never the mans choice

He does not risk his life to carry a baby.

He does not risk life changing injuries to carry a baby

He does not risk his career to carry a baby.

It is never his choice

I also worry that Heidi is being used - and the presence of a quote from the ferociously anti-choice Sally Phillips on the website adds to this impression. Yes, her child has Downs but he is high functioning and she has lots of money.

One or both of these things are not always the case.

as early as possible, as late as necessary. Don't want an abortion? Don't have one. Do not force birth or childcare on someone else.

because you couldn’t possibly be pro-life and have personal experience of raising a disabled child. 🙄 You know that some people are pro-life for the very reason that they have experience of raising a child with a condition that others use as a reason to have an abortion, right? Jeez.

But that's your choice. Why would you want to force someone to keep a child they don't want or don't feel equipped to raise.

Pro choice don't force you to abort a baby you want. So why do pro life feel the need to force woman to keep babies they don't want.

DSIL and DB had to make the decision to terminate a much wanted pregnancy when they discovered the foetus had a rare trisomy. The disability meant the baby was likely to be stillborn. If it lived it would have zero quality of life, as most of its brain was missing. I think the longest a baby with this condition had survived was 3 or 4.

She had to have labour induced. It was very sad. They named their baby and took photos but they had no doubts about their decision.

The trisomy was discovered at the 20 week scan. Like many people the 20 week scan was a bit late. Then there were other tests and discussing the results with the consultant. The termination took place after 24 weeks.

I believe as early as possible, as late as necessary. People don't have late abortions for fun, FFS.

It's as much a man's right.

It’s not his body going through pregnancy and birth, so how does that work? He has rights over someone else’s body? Rights without responsibilities? No.

Aaah 11 pages til the what about the men came up. Must be a record.

Men get to bugger off any time they want. Many lie about their incomes to get out if paying child support even go as far as to quit their job. They start new families. Plenty also let the child down all the time, fail to look after them properly and move away then expect the mum to pay a fortune in transport to take the kid to the new house.

Until men are tied to the baby the same women are , they it's the womans decision

All abortion should be legal up until birth

This is disgusting.

I think the law should be changed. The date for legal terminations should be the same for all pregnancies. And that should be as late as necessary in all cases. Forced birth is not okay. I come from a standpoint of having fostered learning disabled adults and worked with this client group all my life. Now they are here I would defend their rights with my dying breath. Before they are born I simply cannot prioritise their rights over their mothers.

Would I abort a healthy baby - no, not at any stage. But I support other women to have the right to do as they want with their own bodies.

No no no none of this is about women's bodies or any of that feminism crap. A decision to terminate is based on whether the parents feel they could maintain a quality of life for the elves and their child were it to be born with the identified disability. If not it is reasonable to have an abortion.

Your job as a mother is to protect your child and to make the best decision for that child. Sometimes the right and hard decision is discontinuation but it's not about a women's body.

@Celerysam

Conception may need a man and woman but pregnancy does NOT involve both. Pregnancy does not carry ANY physical impact or medical risk for men.

They have no rights in pregnancy - legally, or in my view, ethically.

'm not sure at what point you would be able to test for downs or other disabilities during pregnancy,

In the NHS, all women in UK are offered a non-invasive
blood test plus ultrasound screen between 10 and 14 weeks of pregnancy, for Downs and other chromosome anomalies. There are different tests for Downs available later in the pregnancy.

@picklemewalnuts I don’t think it is just the need for ‘sufficient resources’ that would encourage someone to have a late term tfmr. It’s a highly complex decision. Our baby who is due any minute has DiGeorge, a chromosomal spectrum disorder. We didn’t find out until 25 weeks. We decided to keep the baby but my decision making process was incredibly unexpected and wide ranging, and very border line if I’m brutally honest. No one would be that late term and not think about that decision from all possible angles. Totally behind keeping the law as it is now.

No no no none of this is about women's bodies or any of that feminism crap

😂

A decision to terminate is based on whether the parents feel they could maintain a quality of life for the elves and their child were it to be born with the identified disability. If not it is reasonable to have an abortion

So wait men and elves get to choose? What about the woman who has to carry the baby?

I can understand why this woman is campaigning and to say she is being used by pro life belittles her. If there was a test that could diagnose autism before birth but not how severe or mild that autism would be, Would people be ok with full term abortions then.

Same to what others said

I personally could not terminate a healthy baby after 20 weeks.

However, I support those who do.

@HeatherIV That’s not the issue she’s raising though. She’s not saying that all abortion should be banned. She’s saying that the abortion limit should be the same. That disabled babies post-24 weeks should have the same rights as non-disabled ones do. Down’s syndrome can be detected well before 24 weeks. Perhaps the issue is that better and earlier testing is needed rather than having to allow later term abortions.

@2bazookas lots of anomalies are only found out after 24 weeks. Also, an amnio centisis takes 2 weeks to process. So if you have a heart anomaly found for example and need it investigated, followed by an amnio, you are unlikely to find out within the 24 week window. This is what happened to us.

Bodily autonomy is a basic human right. It's pathetic that you don't know anything about the basis of our laws and legal system, yet want to lecture others and make snarky comments about womens rights.

Surely it's possible to have that earlier with advances in technology

It's nothing to do with technology, and everything to do with foetal developement. Some issues do not become apparent until later in a pregnancy.

Even at 24 weeks a baby is not viable without medical intervention, it is still dependent on medical life support. Babies only start to become independently "viable" from about 34 weeks.

No no no none of this is about women's bodies or any of that feminism crap. A decision to terminate is based on whether the parents feel they could maintain a quality of life for the elves and their child were it to be born with the identified disability. If not it is reasonable to have an abortion.

Im sorry I didn't realise you were the authority of when women are allowed to abort.

I also like the fact you quoted my post - which explains I have a disabled child and the reality that brings. Then told me when I should have the right to abort a disabled child.

No one should be forced to raise a child they do not want. I am capable of looking after my son. My son and my family have a reasonable quality of life. But, if I had been given the choice to abort, I would have taken it as is my right, based on nothing more than the fact I don't want a disabled child.