To think the future for women in the work place is looking pretty bleak at the moment?

[KittyRainbow]

Just that really. While I understand why certain measures are being taken to slow the spread of C19. I am struggling with how much more it is affecting me than my husband.

We both work full time, and have 3 DC (nursery, primary and early secondary age) We have always had a pretty equal approach to childcare, taking turns with sick days, appointments etc but he does earn 3 times what I do (despite me having more education and better qualifications than him)

My eldest (12) will not be going back to school until September and we have been told that it will likely be part time in school, part time learning at home.
Likewise my middle, who starts reception in September. Again we've been told it will likely be part time. My youngest attends 2 childcare settings. She is only allowed to return to one for now and neither can take her full time.

My husband is due back at work from furlough FT from June 1st. My work have been great, I am currently working FT at home and they've been very understanding so far (helps that he's been on furlough as he has been able to take the children away for conference calls etc) and have no concerns about me being lone carer from June.

BUT they've said that they will expect people to be back in the office from Sept. Most of my colleagues are men and are fine with that.

I will not be able to do that unless schools and nurseries go back FT. Almost every woman I know is in the same boat. Even my secondary age child will need input at home. There is 0 chance she will sit and do school work if she is left at home alone. The smaller two obviously need constant supervision. Husband's work cannot be done from home. Mine can but not with the children around.

AIBU to think that all of the PT school/childcare etc is going to affect women far more than men, and to think that moving forward we will see a trend towards far less women in the workplace?

Blended learning is a shit show and a sure fire way to ensure that women end up back in the kitchen watching the kids where the belong.

Well, don't let that happen! You go back to work and let your husband stay in the kitchen with the children.

Well, don't let that happen! You go back to work and let your husband stay in the kitchen with the children.

LOL

Well, don't let that happen! You go back to work and let your husband stay in the kitchen with the children

Right and who's going to pay our bills? My wage does not cover all our bills which I have already said.

LOL

Can't you see you are enabling these sexist men who don't want to take responsibility for the children they've procreated by laughing off as ridiculous any suggestion that they should?

Right and who's going to pay our bills? My wage does not cover all our bills which I have already said

And as I have already said, that is because you have chosen to live a lifestyle that couldn't be financed on your wage alone.

And as I have already said, that is because you have chosen to live a lifestyle that couldn't be financed on your wage alone

Yes. Like most people. Because we never envisaged being in a position where we needed to live on one wage. Like most people.

What is your fucking point other than just being condescending and rude?

Can't you see you are enabling these sexist men who don't want to take responsibility for the children they've procreated by laughing off as ridiculous any suggestion that they should?

Dp would happily stay at home with Ds. But again who's gonna pay the bills?

Factually more women have already lost their jobs (5% more), and that is before the end of furlough, women are doing more of the additional childcare and more of the additional home schooling. Women are also doing more of the caring roles out of the home.

We dont exist in a vacuum, we exist in a world where only one female politician has given a daily briefing, where many of the senior male politicians have young children but seem to have no clue about childcare / schooling or child development and government proposals for young people are a complete mess. When Cancun 8 year old see her friends, a 3 year old the grandmother who cared for her 3 days per week until March, how is an 11 year old going to access home schooling on his older brothers old mobile with limited data and also care for his two younger siblings etc etc.

New mothers are left without support to feed and care for their babies, but a senior male government advisor can drive 300 to see relatives due to having a young child.

When asked about childcare we are told employers should be 'reasonable' but when choosing whose job goes are you going to choose the person (of either sex) who has been out of the workforce for childcare or the one who has been working throughout.

Yes. Like most people. Because we never envisaged being in a position where we needed to live on one wage. Like most people.

It's not like 'most people' because many people have no choice but to live off one wage. What would you do if your husband lost his job? You'd have no choice but to live off your wage until he found another job. It might be difficult but you'd have to do it.

Yes, of course the pandemic was completely unforeseeable but that doesn't mean women have to just accept that their role is to go back to the kitchen to look after the children.

Can't you see you are enabling these sexist men who don't want to take responsibility for the children they've procreated by laughing off as ridiculous any suggestion that they should?

I'm laughing because I don't live in a world in which I can control everyone else's behaviour. I got rid of my sexist man, now I have to do everything and have far less time and money.

It's not like 'most people' because many people have no choice but to live off one wage. What would you do if your husband lost his job? You'd have no choice but to live off your wage until he found another job. It might be difficult but you'd have to do it

Yes of course we would but the major difference here is that he could go get another job. Even if it was part time minimum wage or a few hours pulling pints in a pub it would be fine.

We are now not allowed to both work full time because childcare is banned and schools aren't going to re open fill time.

This is not a life choices issue.

And as I have already said, that is because you have chosen to live a lifestyle that couldn't be financed on your wage alone

Nope, it's the low wage economy in the UK, the fact that many women still put carers on hold or simply work PT to have children and the bias towards men in many sectors that makes it difficult for woman of childbearing age.

Yes of course we would but the major difference here is that he could go get another job. Even if it was part time minimum wage or a few hours pulling pints in a pub it would be fine.

But in that example, to cope with the Corona childcare situation, you could work full time during the day while your husband looked after your children, and then he could work a part time job in the evenings - there are still part time jobs about, supermarkets being a big employer, cleaning vacancies, delivery driving - all that is still going on. Pubs and restaurants are set to reopen in July so the pint-pulling might even be an option too.

The problem is that so many people would look at the suggestion above and laugh at the very thought of their husband giving up his high-flying career to look after the children and then pull pints of an evening or stack shelves in Tesco at the weekend - and yet the same people would accept a wife giving up work altogether with barely a murmur.

the fact that many women still put carers on hold or simply work PT to have children and the bias towards men in many sectors

Women need to stop putting their careers on hold or going part time, or the bias towards men will never change. If more men were the ones to put their careers on hold and more couples both went PT to cope with childcare, there'd be no need for a bias towards men. While women accept this, it will never change.

My dps career is not high flying at all. He actually has no qualifications for anything. It just pays better than what I do.
We would be foolish to throw that job away for a short term problem whereas my job exists everywhere and pays similarly shit everywhere. So it'd be much more sensible for me to quit for a while and work in a pub. To be honest I'd be happy to do that. I just want to work full stop.

That doesn't solve the massive issue that my child is entitled to a proper education and might not get one.

It's a matter of choice as a couple.

Everyone has the right to request parental leave from their employer. It's luck of the draw how flexible your employer is, but nothing to do with your gender.

What job you had to start with is also largely down to personal choices in life. Yes more women seem to give up on careers to have children than men do, but who forced them to do it?

I can understand that it makes sense for the lower earner to make the sacrifice where necessary, but that's not always the woman.

I am the higher earner in our family and also work fewer hours (30 to his 40) but DH is on shifts so we usually share childcare between us with nursery and wraparound care where necessary. With schools being part time I have told my employer I'll be WFH around drop offs and I'm fortunate that I can do this. DH can't WFH and has less flexibility but he would absolutely request parental leave if he needed to.

My future in the workplace is not looking bleak at all.

I think it will massively affect women more in lots of cases. However, men are probably taking more risk re the virus. Even thinking personally, we’ve got to a situation where my husband has progressed to being very senior while I’ve had 2 mat leave and part time working. Because he outearns me, we have to be pragmatic and because his job comes with more stresses and bigger responsibilities, when we have clashing diaries, we have to try and support him. He is doing childcare on my working days as we both can’t work at the same time as having a 1 and 3 year old but he is isn’t as affected because:

1. he has my non working days to catch up and have more availability
2. I’m still taking on more mental load

Quite frankly though, we wouldn’t have coped if I’d been at the next rung of the ladder- we’re barely coping now and I don’t think you can have two parents going full pelt when children are tiny. For our family, our choices have been the right ones but for my career, they haven’t. Given childcare could be a problem for a long-time lots of people (and probably more women) will end up leaving the workplace, being pushed down in terms of performance rankings and status and will probably suffer in terms of promotions for years after the immediate crisis ends.

As 20 something old and pre children I was every bit as equal as my male counterparts. I couldn't imagine time where that wouldn't be the case. I was stupid

Nailed it, RoomR0613

Nothing recruits to feminism like being forcibly confronted with the brutal reality of life as a woman - after becoming a mother.

I actually thought I was a feminist pre motherhood. Christ, my feminism gained a whole new dimension once I became visibly pregnant.

I would never have put my career second to my DH's
And he never would have asked me to
For a few years when the DC were young it might have been easier,but definitely not in the long term

@RoomR0613 has nailed it.

@Pelleas again, your posts sound very much like you blame women. Paying the bills isn't the same as a "lifestyle" choice, and how much you earn isn't a function of how hard you work(appalling concept) but a combination of many things, including society, and your background.

Also, a pp mentioned biology: women who take maternity leave should not be disadvantaged. Breast feeding, recovery, pnd, are factors in how long you take off work.

Finally, you can't predict how your partner will take to parenthood, often true colours aren't shown till after kids.

Paying the bills isn't the same as a "lifestyle" choice

The number and size of the bills you have are determined by your lifestyle choices.

how much you earn isn't a function of how hard you work(appalling concept)

I have never said it is.

women who take maternity leave should not be disadvantaged. Breast feeding, recovery, pnd, are factors in how long you take off work.

Of course all women need maternity leave, but that doesn't mean it can't be split as shared parental leave, to share the burden of caring for the baby and reduce the impact on the mother's career.

So many women don't do this - SPL has been available since 2015 but hardly anyone is taking advantage. It's the law that any workplace has to provide a suitable area for breastfeeding mums to express milk - again, little take up. As for PND, that's a medical condition that would qualify for sick leave if appropriate - you don't need to use mat leave if you need time off. And 'recovery' - again if you are so badly damaged by your pregnancy that you need a year to recover from it, you'd undoubtedly be eligible for sick leave.

In all likelihood, it looks like I am going to lose my job in June (or resign voluntarily, due to bad energy accumulating in the team around me "holidaying").
The school is going back very part time. Breakfast / after school club does not open. Interviewed a couple of nannies, but they know they are in demand at the moment and quite rightly want the remuneration to match - the total nanny cost to me after tax, pension and NI will be triple my mortgage. No local childminder places, and many childminders plan to be on furlough until the end of the scheme, suggested to enquire then (not sure when the self employed furlough ends, is it also October?)
I am a single parent, haven't taken a day of maternity leave previously, working in a professional role. Can't work from home efficiently now with a YR and Y1, exhausted to no end. I did not foresee that my exH would meet the love of his life when I was six month pregnant with our second, and will move to another country with her "to start again". I guess that was the bad choice I made.

The issue is that anyone taking a year out of their career will find it put back. Women then find it harder to make up that year because they take the majority of responsibility for the kids. Sick days, emergency leave, part time working etc

Even men who take a year out then either go part time, or need to take a good portion of time off will struggle.

Which is why it needs to be shared. To impact neither where possible.

I do also agree that many women, dont want shared parental leave. They feel something is taken away from them. And thats i my experience of managing people and knowing people in real life.

Both men and women need to get used to the idea of SPL.

The number and size of the bills you have are determined by your lifestyle choices

They're generally based on where you live more than anything

They're generally based on where you live more than anything

And what is where you live if not a lifestyle choice? People have very valid reasons for living in more expensive areas - near to family, better schools, jobs with bigger salaries - but those are still choices.