To say I'm half Irish

[Winederlust]

Just wanted to settle a petty argument between DH and I.
I was born in England. As was my mum. My dad also. However both his parents were born in ROI. They moved to the UK as young adults and met, married and settled with a family in England.
I think that, although my dad was born in England, he is full blooded Irish. Which in turn makes me half Irish. My DH reckons I'm quarter at best.
Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things but just interested in the general MN population's thoughts?

I do think that this leads to dangerous territory. Why is the focus on micro parts of our lives when we should be looking at establishing or reestablishing cultural norms and behaviours that everyone can adhere to and be part of and we identify people against that? It was seen as racist/elitist in England I think but the alternative seems to me to parcel people up into framed identities that runs the risk of making things even easier for racists.

There’s a smoke screen at play - we should ave continued doing what we had started before and focus on inclusion.

Ireland I think has a good record here, there a couple of people who have spoken on record - the wildlife presenter and actress who played Shirley Bassey (sorry mind has gone blank).

There is a book I will try and find that looks at how each country integrated it’s second generation and how that manifests itself in terms of identity. I think uk was unique in not having an integration as such. That doesn’t mean we didn’t see ourselves as part of the system or self integrated (easier for some ) and followed the rules of law, etc.

Don't know, but I would apply for a passport if I were in your position. I am one generation too late.

I'd add that for what it's worth, I'd say my DD is going to grow up to be primarily Irish (living in Ireland, with one Irish parent, from childhood) with English and Jewish and Indian heritage from me, but she'll be a loooong way away from being Indian, for example, especially as my DM is dead and so she'll not have really any regular contact with someone who was actually born and raised in that culture.

As another example, my dad was born of Russian Jewish stock, with his parents and grandparents and great grandparents all coming from the same kind of ancestry, but I'm definitely not half Russian, no matter how you spin it, because it was my great-great grandparents who actually lived in Russia. I'd say I was influenced by having British Ashkenazi Jewish heritage, but that's definitely its own thing and not the same as Russian Jewish at all.

I find diaspora identities really interesting actually, and wish they could be celebrated more for what they are, and not used in this reductive way of trying to boil people's identities down to some kind of single nation gene or something.

I wish I knew who Dermot O'Leary is.
Boy are you missing out!

If you're talking "genetically" (although that's a can of worms, there's no genetic difference between an Irish person and an English person), then you are half Irish. BUT only if your dad's parents are actually Irish going back a long, long way. There's a LONG history of immigration between Ireland and the UK, that no-one in the UK or Ireland could hand-on-heart say what they are with any accurate percentage.

In terms of getting a passport, you'd qualify for an Irish passport. But personally, I'd say it was a bit tenuous to say "Oh I'm half Irish" because your dad's parents were. Saying half-anything strongly implies one of your parents is a different nationality, not a grandparent.

Culturally though, I certainly wouldn't say half Irish. You were born in England, as were both of your parents. Culturally, one set of Irish grandparents does not, in my eyes anyway, half Irish make.

You are ENTITLED to call yourself half Irish theoretically, but culturally it's a reach IMO.

@Gwenhwyfar, you may not realise who he is, but you may have heard his voice if you haven't seen him.

He's a television and radio presenter and he's a voice over artist as well.

www.johnnoel.com/clients/dermot-oleary/

Genetically speak yes...you are half Irish. My dc were born in the U.K. I am irish, dh is from U.K. so my dc are half Irish.

You inherit 50% of genes from each parent. Who's to say your dad is 100% Irish.

I would just say my grandparents were Irish if I were you.

It’s not like it’s even a thing. What, biologically speaking, separates an ‘Irish’ person from an ‘English’ person? Nothing.
The only tangible difference is cultural in which case you are English. Your parents were born and raised there and so were you, you’re English.
Anything else is an artificial construct and therefore meaningless.
Imo.

SpeedofaSloth, not suggesting you haven't checked, but it does go back to a grandparent being Irish to qualify to apply for an Irish passport.

DP is definitely half-Scottish. His dad was a weegie, and DP has inherited some weegie traits, notably a sweet tooth and using the word "cunt" at every opportunity

@LakieLady

Is this a joke? A weegie?

Do you and your DH actually use that word?

He’s not half Scottish because he has a sweet tooth and calls himself a weegie pet 🙄

There's a LONG history of immigration between Ireland and the UK,

I guess that's one way of describing British colonisation.......

I notice even from friends who emigrated in 1993, the Ireland they think of as 'home' it NO LONGER EXISTS really

Perhaps your friends have some odd ideas, or are rabidly anti-abortion, anti-immigration or anti-same-sex marriage? Because I emigrated in 1994, and returned in 2019, and I can assure you that it's absolutely essentially the same country -- sure, it's more prosperous, more multi-ethnic, with less discriminatory laws, and the NI peace process essentially successfully concluded since then, but it's recognisably the same Ireland I left.

Indeed, @OchonAgusOchonO.

@Ochon

But the problem is people aren’t viewing it through the lense of colonialism as experienced by the ones who left- simply by the ones who stayed and then, there’s a whole backlog of stuff from the past to get through.

This is too lived, too real, too present to be simplified by people in Ireland.

Let the ones who emigrated speak for themselves, starting with the lost voices of the 40s and 50s. You have only ever heard one tone.

They are owed that and they should be respected.

@Olliephaunt4eyes

Yes, ver interesting and as you say, not one dimensional. Some of my family for the same dynamic as you.

Children are born in London, raised in fat east to an Irish by descent dad and Russian Jewish ancestry London born mum.

It’s a rainbow coalition of love

@serenada - the post I addressed referred to a history of immigration between Ireland and Britain. I was only addressing the movement from Britain to Ireland. My point was that referring to "a long history of British immigration to Ireland" is disingenuous. It was colonisation, not immigration, up until the recent past.

I was not referring to Irish emigration at all. While the economic backdrop resulting from colonisation led to emigration up until the 1950's at least, it is much more complicated and can't be simplified to a single reason.

I did one of those ancestry dna tests that said I was 46% Irish. I know my great grandparents were Irish. My birth place in the UK was built on Irish immigration. My surname is Irish. It’s pretty much a given that I’ll have Irish genes, but my nationality is British.
You have Irish heritage, but your nationality is very much British.

Hmmm...it's a confusing one.

I'm from the same background as you (Dad English, Mum born in London to two Irish parents), but I don't describe myself as 'half Irish.' I know that genetically I am, but because both of my parents have lived their entire lives in England I feel like it would be laying claim to a culture that isn't mine, if that makes sense? My Mum is very proud of her Irish heritage (as am I), we visit family there regularly & usually refer to Ireland as 'home', but even my Mum doesn't call herself 'Irish.' I usually just say that I'm 'British of Irish descent/ British with Irish family.'

Your DH is definitely wrong though, where is he getting 1/4 from?? It makes no mathematical sense

You have Irish heritage, but your nationality is very much British.

Only if she wants it to be. She is entitled to Irish citizenship.

I wonder about this my dads side both my grandparents were born in Dublin and moved here in the 60's and had me dad here but both were full on Irish accents etc
My moms side my Nan is English and my grandad was born in Ireland my mom was born here so three of my grandparents are from Dublin.
Half my family live in Dublin cousins etc
My surname is very Irish and a well known Irish name.
I class myself as English not sure if I'm half or quarter Irish thought

Look, just learn to do Irish Dancing, then you'll definitely be half Irish (I'm also half Irish, btw)

For a long time, I thought that was the actual rule.

He’s not half Scottish because he has a sweet tooth and calls himself a weegie pet 🙄

No, he’s half Scottish because his father was Scottish!

“Weegie” is widely used amongst Scots I know (both resident and non-resident). I know it’s not universally-likes but it’s common parlance.

If you are talking about nationality and your dad was registered as English as he was born here then you are English too. If you are referring to Irish ancestry or Irish blood then you are half Irish. If he had dual citizenship then I don't know

Are we talking Irish republic or Northern Ireland, as that matters.