To say I'm half Irish

[Winederlust]

Just wanted to settle a petty argument between DH and I.
I was born in England. As was my mum. My dad also. However both his parents were born in ROI. They moved to the UK as young adults and met, married and settled with a family in England.
I think that, although my dad was born in England, he is full blooded Irish. Which in turn makes me half Irish. My DH reckons I'm quarter at best.
Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things but just interested in the general MN population's thoughts?

You're English you were born in England. I hate all the 1/2, 1/4 something BS.

"due to not all fathers being the actual fathers of ancestors."

Not all mothers either. Informal abortion was common in the past, although often they might be relatives so still family.

@ArgumentativeAardvaark I can confirm that the British definitely think of him as English, with Irish parents. So when you were elected as spokesperson for the British nation was it a unanimous vote or a majority?

Split hairs if you like @1forsorrow, I read the British media and would bet good money that a survey in the U.K. would return that result.

We'll meet in the middle he is an English/Irish with a mix of Scandinavian, he doesn't have the typical Irish Spanish look so I'll wage against Scandinavia.

@ArgumentativeAardvaark so are you the official spokesperson for the British people or just stating your own opinion?

I can confirm that the British definitely think of him as English, with Irish parents.

No you can’t. You aren’t a spokesperson.

To me, (London mongrel), he is very clearly (2nd gen) London Irish, which is a very recognisable cultural phenomenon of its own.

www.londonirishcentre.org/news/announcinganeveningwithdermotolearymusicalguests

It’s sensitive - really a sensitive issue now. I have a strong London accent and am living back in the area I grew up in but was told by my teaching assistant to ‘get the boat’ the day after the Brexit vote. She also told the two African workers in the classroom she would pay for a one way ticket for them. All jokingly, of course.

My housemate commented on how we shouldn’t have been so reliant on the potato ( famine reference ).

Two people have recently referred to me as Irish when they clearly know I am English - it’s definitely becoming a way to ‘other’ is here in the way Ireland uses it to ‘other’ us there.

I am not sure I like that way of framing things - it seems to victimise too much but it currently seems to be the only way people are recognising these issues. Personally, I think it is born of a simplistic view of movement caused by geographical, social and economic need and looking at it through a nationalistic prism is the wrong way to view it. It needs a far broader, much more inclusive understanding - not something so inherently right wing, antagonistic and dismissive. It also does not make Ireland look good.

My friends who I have grown up with here are warmly embraced and respected as part of the diaspora of their ancestral homelands.

Something Ireland got very wrong during the boom years I think.

And let’s not mention ‘the gathering’

@1forsorrow I am stating my own belief that this what the majority of British people would say.

I can see why he thinks you're not half Irish but you are entitled to form your own identity. He is basing ''Irish'' on his own definition and although I do agree with him up to a point, when both of your parents were born in England, it's a different definition from his own.

How about saying that having Irish grandparents has made a big impact on your identity. I can see that. 100% of your grandparents are / were Irish and that must have shaped you!

You're English you were born in England. I hate all the 1/2, 1/4 something BS.

You’re saying you hate all concept of cultural, ethnic and genetic heritage @OliviaPopeRules ?! Really? It’s all “BS”?!

I mean, he has got a massively strong Essex accent. Your average casual viewer is not going to think he grew up in Ireland.

@ariettyJones I said “English with Irish parents”. What’s the difference between that and London Irish?

@serenada I'm genuinely sorry you'd a bad experience I Ireland.
Your teaching assistant is an ignorant ass and needs to be reported. I reported 2 security guards in work neither Irish for racist comments against another.

@ArriettyJones

See, I would describe LondonIrish as those born in London to Irish parents. The original Irish centres here were built out of our parents’ work and contribution.

I think some people now see London Irish as Irish born in Ireland but living and working in London.

It is a different dynamic. Perhaps one of the areas it really matters in is work and whether you are part of an Irish network loyal to business in Ireland or whether you will be loyal to English workers/employees.

I don’t for a second think that Irish people view it that way but the problem is that those of us born in uk are aware that it is viewed that way often by English people.

It's misleading to describe yourself as 'half Irish' in a social context as people will assume one of your parents was raised in Ireland. I think it comes down to cultural heritage rather than genetics. In terms of being 50% Irish of genetically - that makes it sound like Irish people are a different race! While there are some very very minor genetic markers that may distinguish an Irish person - they are still pretty much the same. You have been raised by someone with Irish traditions etc, and therefore I would be more likely to say that I had Irish grandparents and leave it at that if I were you!

I really wouldn't consider Dermot O'Leary Irish. His parents or one parent might have been Irish, his name would suggest that.

But it's not a competition to be Irish, or not to be Irish.

I like what Graham Norton has done with his identity in the UK. No stereotypes. He is himself first and foremost and no doubt his accent has evolved, but he isn't re-writing his past.

I mean, he has got a massively strong Essex accent. Your average casual viewer is not going to think he grew up in Ireland.

Do you know how many Irish dancing groups (for example) there are in Essex and N London? How many young people can switch between an Essex accent to Tralee or Waterford (or wherever) and back in a sentence?

I notice even from friends who emigrated in 1993, the Ireland they think of as 'home' it NO LONGER EXISTS really. So to base your Irishness on an Ireland that no longer exists would be a kind of distortion. But having said that I get that having 4 Irish grandparents would shape your sense of yourself in the UK

Thank you @EmeraldShamrock

That really actually means a lot. I know that that isn’t who Irish people are. I know that, I really do. I get that during the boom the spot light was on them and so much change was going on.

I have spent every summer in Ireland since birth and lived there in and off as an adult. I’m not a caricature of Irish identity - I’m a real person and it broke my heart to realise that you could embrace so many people over us when the only place I’ve ever felt Tahoe or relaxed in is Ireland.

The grief my parents have received is shocking. I can’t even emotionally deal with it without getting so angry.

I also wish that people were more honest about all this.

My family in Ireland are different - they are fantastic, we are all very close and they would always say we are Irish. That’s who we get it from - other Irish people.

I like what Graham Norton has done with his identity in the UK. No stereotypes. He is himself first and foremost and no doubt his accent has evolved, but he isn't re-writing his past.

You make him sound like a self-renovation project!

Aren’t most people just themselves? Towing their heritage and their experiences along with them and living their lives?

I’m sure there are many @AriettyJones. But Dermot O’Leary does not go around on prime time TV switching between an Irish and an Essex accent.

I am not making any assumptions about what he IS, I am saying how most English TV viewers PERCEIVE him.

By comparison, John Barrowman was brought up in Glasgow and can switch to broad Glaswegian at the drop of a hat. I know this and have seen a few YouTube videos because I find it interesting that he shares my heritage. However the vast majority of people have no idea.

I’m sure there are many @AriettyJones. But Dermot O’Leary does not go around on prime time TV switching between an Irish and an Essex accent.

I am not making any assumptions about what he IS, I am saying how most English TV viewers PERCEIVE him.

I think most Brits are familiar with London Irish as a distinct third culture concept. 🤷🏽‍♀️

Dermot is the patron for the London Irish centre. He mentioned it as his charity on the late late show.

@ariettyjones, well I know this for a fact, when you live in the uk for over a decade, that part of your identity that is based on nationality can either be reinforced too defensively, or if you want to assimilate like I did, it can become a bit blurry around the edges. I just look at Graham and I like teh way he's navigated that. It actually isn't that easy.