To say I'm half Irish

[Winederlust]

Just wanted to settle a petty argument between DH and I.
I was born in England. As was my mum. My dad also. However both his parents were born in ROI. They moved to the UK as young adults and met, married and settled with a family in England.
I think that, although my dad was born in England, he is full blooded Irish. Which in turn makes me half Irish. My DH reckons I'm quarter at best.
Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things but just interested in the general MN population's thoughts?

I only found out my dad was British born a few years ago in my 40s.
He claims he's fully Irish, says he's Irish, hates english etc. It is very annoying. He says I'm half Irish. Like fuck I am!
I have many 'Irish' relations. None of them live or were born in Ireland. After a lifetime of it it's all very annoying. Maybe it's a feeling, like gender.

Conor McGregor gets claimed as British too, until he breaks the law somewhere, then he's Irish.

Just wondering how long out of a country you have to be to stop being of that country.

Its not just the passage of time, it's got to be about how you choose to present yourself, and, I'm sorry to have to add, how people respond to you.

My sister was born on the island of Ireland in the '50s, both parents also born there. I was born in London during their first 'foreign' posting. We both grew up in international (expat) communities in cities in Germany.

Sister returned to England to train to be a teacher in '70s with a british passport. Anti-Irish sentiment was strong during the bombings, few people in England have ever understood the different Irish communities. Sister kept her head down, no one who knows her as an adult would have any idea of her Irish heritage. I think her colouring (dark hair, contrasting very pale skin) is obvious.

I went to University in Germany, was delighted to discover an monastery close by, founded by Irish monks, who are credited with the reintroduction of Christianity to Europe following the dark ages. Lots of freckles, sadly not red hair: both British/Irish passports. Still don't enjoy answering the question because it, yes, it really is complicated for anyone whose heritage, birthplace and upbringing are not all the same

People who say there is nothing to make a fuss about, if you are born and brought up in 'here' have, I would guess, not had the experience of being told but 'you are not from here' with the implicit you are not like us and not as good as us.

It is very noticeable that in 'international' communities this is a question which is hardly given much attention, and can just as easily be answered by stating the location of the last posting. Except perhaps when the question is about the impact on any children. It is still the case that you have to for example be born in Yorkshire to play cricket for Yorkshire or born in the USA to be president.

For day to day purposes, while people will notice colouring, in my experience their response to anyone will be most strongly to the sound of their voice, or accent. People who 'choose' to retain an original accent will be accepted of that origin.

Getting back to the original point, it's not just passage of time that determines when you might be considered of the 'new' country, it's how you present yourself in that new country, to stand out of blend in, especially between the UK and Ireland where the differences between people are not especially noticeable unless you are looking for them.

The Celebrities mentioned up thread provide a good example of how the voice works effortlessly to proclaim the heritage.

There is also a key difference in that Andy Murray is BOTH British and Scottish because there is no separate Scottish nationality when it comes to citizenship and passports (much as many Scots would wish it to be different). On the other hand, Irish IS a distinct nationality.

@Hotpinkangel19, I honestly don't know. I was following a PP's logic.

I had 4 GPs, 2 of whom were Irish, ie half. Both my parents were half Irish, which adds up to 1 parent.

And to confuse things further, my paternal GF was Welsh.

DP is definitely half-Scottish. His dad was a weegie, and DP has inherited some weegie traits, notably a sweet tooth and using the word "cunt" at every opportunity.

@ElspethFlashman

Dermot O’Leary has no cultural identity with Ireland.

Bet that’s news to him.

The word "Irish" is being used in a vague way, so there can be no agreement on what it means.

I think you are using it tro mean "some of my ancestors lived in Ireland"

You are not using it to mean "I was born in Ireland"
or
"I am resident in Ireland"

You are probably not using it to mean "I am an Irish Citizen and not a citizen of the UK"

I think you could reasonably say "I am of Irish descent"

Some of your ancestorsmay have come from Norway, Portugal, Spain, Palestine, England and Scotland. Going back further, from Africa.

So it is risky to say "I am of 100% Irish descent" unless you specify which generations you have in mind.

My cousin is Irish living in England.Her kids say they are Irish.I would think they are half.They where born in England.

I also think it’s how your parents view you. Data O’Brein said something when he had his first child with his English wife whilst living in England. It was something along the lines of having a son grow up with an English accent.

Cillian Murphy the same, I think. If your parents are proud of their Irish nationality they will bring you up to be proud of it, too.

@serenada, you have misquoted @ElspethFlashman. She said that DO’L has no cultural identity IN Ireland not WITH Ireland.

He point being that Irish people do not perceive him as Irish. Since she is an Irish person living in Ireland she is qualified to say how the Irish see him.

I say half as well (same family tree as you apart from my mums parents) but I don't know my dad (full english) and grew up in the house with my Irish nan and grandad. Visited Ireland at least 4 times a year up until about 16. I know I'm not half Irish but when describing the way I feel connected to my family history it is easier to say than explain my family history.

@serenada you can’t stop your kid growing up with the accent if the area they live, especially if one parent also has that accent. My son has always had an English accent despite me being his primary carer when he first learned to talk. He sometimes tries to correct the way I say things and I tell him patiently that this is how we speak where Mummy comes from. It’s fascinating, even if I teach him a brand new word and he repeats it back to me he will say it using English pronounciation. I imagine that DO’B probably just said how weird it felt to have a kid talking differently. Katharine Ryan does a similar skit about her daughter being a posh little English girl.

Yesterday I was served in a shop by a young lad who is clearly from a Nigerian or Ghanaian family, quite possibly not born in Ireland at all. But he sounded just like me. He's Irish. You are not He could have very well been Irish born in Ireland. My niece has many FrenchNigerian/Irish friends born here first generation, they call themself Nigerian/Paddy.
Dermot O'Leary is an Englishman FFS
Is he? His parents are Irish they live in Ireland again after years in the UK. I don't consider my DD British although she was born in Belfast her parent's are Irish. father is NI Catholic Irish
O'Leary was born in Colchester, North Essex, England to parents Seán and Maria, who had moved to the United Kingdom from Ireland. He is "extremely proud" of his Irish roots and holds dual British and Irish citizenship.[2] O'Leary attended primary school in Marks Tey and later St Benedict's Catholic College in Colchester

But he's actually English as he was born here

One of my friends was born in Mexico and another in Japan. Does that make them Mexican and Japanese, respectively?

I think not. They both have British parents and GPs, were educated in Britain, have British citizenship and have lived in Britain all their adult lives. They were only born overseas because that is where their parents happened to be based at the time of their birth.

There’s a difference between ethnicity and nationality though

You're English with Irish heritage. I think that is probably simplest?

Never forget that Ireland, geographically, is one of the British Isles, so her people are all British in that sense, even if politically they're Irish!

British imperialism in action again. The British Isles were named by the British as part of their imperialist endeavours. It is not an acceptable term to most Irish. In recognition of that, the Good Friday Agreement and other documents drawn up between the UK and Ireland refers to "these islands".

The term was formally disavowed in September 2005 by the Irish Government when Foreign Minister Dermot Ahern stated: "The British Isles is not an officially recognised term in any legal or inter-governmental sense. It is without any official status. The Government, including the Department of Foreign Affairs, does not use this term."

So no, we are not British in any sense.

I have to say that whilst this may seem like a for public debate, there is a distinct lack of awareness of historical events on the part of many Irish in Ireland. This is delicate as in the UK being Irish was difficult in the past. Many hid their Irish ancestry but also many were proud of it and built very good relationships with people and organisations in the UK that paved the way for subsequent generations to benefit from. Those people were proud to show that they were Irish and knew that they would lift the reputation by just being themselves. They successfully made good homes and lives for their offspring and relatives. It is the work of previous generations, particularly the ones who came over in the 50s that by built a good solid foundation. The steretypyping they get in Ireland and in certain parts of the UK is ignorance and laughable precisely because it doesn’t relate to their experiences or behaviour. In Ireland, I think you are taught to be ashamed of them which makes no sense at all - they were successful people who never compromised their identity.

Ditto the Indian girl who clings to her British identity- she has to assert it because she knows that there are many who will say she doesn’t belong here and for her it may be about cultural expectations - more traditional Indian communities may see certain behaviour one way - she has grown up in liberal, modern Britain and that’s what she wants to identify with.

I noticed during Ireland’s boom I wasn’t seen as Irish but once the crash hit, it was all you are Irish - you are one of us.

I think huge damage was done to the diaspora then - really hurtful stuff. We have always defended Ireland in the UK as we understand the history but now it is difficult to defend people who throw such hate at you and disowned you the moment they could.

@Ofti I don't think it is like that in Ireland, obviously EE is a big place but I think culturally EE and Ireland are not very far a part, they mix well with very similar lifestyles and values.

He's never lived in Ireland himself. He's English, born and raised and still choosing to be. His country is England.

His parents are Irish. They were raised in Ireland, quite apart from the fact they chose to come back.

They are different.

How is that so hard to understand?

He point being that Irish people do not perceive him as Irish. Since she is an Irish person living in Ireland she is qualified to say how the Irish see him
I see him as Irish.
Wasn't he one of the Irish videolink guests on the late late show during lockdown along with Niall Horan, Paul Mescal, Amy Hubberton and others. Maybe RTE didn't realise he was English. 🤔

Dermot O’Leary is well known and well recognised as Irish amongst Irish people in Ireland - of course he is - there may be a public strand, political? that doesn’t recognise him as such but that isn’t the case for the entire country.

Euclid

I've put the punctuation marks in your last sentence:

Your grammar is atrocious. The correct wording is that the argument is "between DH and me". Most Irish people understand grammar, so perhaps, you are zero percent Irish, in reality.

I’ll leave @ElspethFlashman and @EmeraldShamrock to slug it out over how the Irish see Dermot O’Leary, I am not remotely qualified to comment! All I did was report in the first bit of evidence offered by an Irish poster.

I can confirm that the British definitely think of him as English, with Irish parents.

I wouldn't class Dermot as Irish.Hes English to Irish parents.