Children are not super spreaders, but answer me this...

[Happymind]

We can contract Covid 19 from objects so must take precautions... but not so much from children?

And children can go to school and be in contact with teachers, as they're not "super spreaders" but can not be around family members or grandparents outside their household?

The UK are following guidance from other countries regarding sending children back to school. They are reassured that there will be little or no covid outbreaks judging by other countries success. Yet the UK appear to be the only ones not providing PPE for students and staff?

Am I missing something?

The economy will be even more buggered when the second wave hits. Because of our government's woeful inaction, it will be much worse

sorry, when? WHEN the second wave hits?

have you a crystal ball?

Why won't there be a second wave though? Our first case was sometime in January, by Match we were in lockdown due to exponential growth and the fear that the NHS would be overwhelmed. Studies are indicating less than 10% of the population have had it so, given that there's nothing in place to stop transmission why wouldn't we back to exponential growth once the country starts opening up?

I do wonder whether English schools reopening to some primary year groups from 01/06 and all year groups for a month is intended to encourage a second wave over the summer or whether that will just be possible by-product. Presumably an all year group return in September might give a second wave together with seasonal 'flu over the UK Winter. It will be interesting how global 'flu transmission and UK 'winter pressures' is affected by changes in behaviour should distancing, PPE and such like persist.

there might well be a second wave. I dont think anyone can possibly say right now that there absolutely will be.

Yes, cases might rise as things start to re open... it doesnt mean we will go back to have 1000 deaths a day, though.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

I don't think anyone knows for sure but I would imagine that's why they are leaving the nightingale hospitals open .

Even in China they are getting more cases - so It probably will happen at some time . We just have to hope some of these new drugs being developed will help .

I know a 17 year old pupil who came down with covid symptoms in late March then spread to their keyworker parents. However, since no tests were available it is not on any ‘spreadsheet’ (!) So there isn’t a lot of data on older pupils. Guess we’ll find out soon.

Given that past pandemics have had massive second waves, then yes, I'd say a second wave is highly probable. Also, our lock down was not anywhere near strict enough. We should have had contact tracing and wide spread testing back at the beginning of March. Anyone coming into the UK should have been subject to 2 weeks of quarantine. It would have been much more manageable and lock down could have been eased earlier.

Our government is still going for herd immunity and they really don't care if we die.

The bit I don’t understand is I have worked in numerous schools. Whilst many of the teachers are under 40, the support staff aren’t. Cleaners, catering staff, teaching assistants, admin, reception, lunchtime supervisors. Many of them have other health issues as well. How can schools open without them.

Yes, cases might rise as things start to re open... it doesnt mean we will go back to have 1000 deaths a day, though.

Why wouldn't we? What's been put in place to stop that?

We're in Melbourne and school's going back soon but I can't work out why it's not safe for dh to be back in the office but dd1 can go back to school

The aim is to keep the spread of the virus at a manageable rate. If we ALL suddenly go back to normal life, it's just gonna go out of control again. So they have to decide, who should go back first? Well, it's easier for adults to work from home than it is for kids to study from home. Kids are also less likely to suffer serious affects if they do catch it. So they go first.

@NYC3000 not clear from your post - have you had covid19 confirmed and think you caught it from your child? Or you think you have had it, and think it was caught from your child?

I don't think it's helpful if it hasn't been confirmed you've had it. We can't make decisions about schools based on people self diagnosing the virus, which lets be honest could be any virus at all.

Apologies if I misunderstood and you are a confirmed case. According to MN, everyone and their dog have had it!

@zandathepanda Again, not a confirmed case.

Aside from that, a 17 year old is basically an adult, physically. Of course they can spread it. We aren't sending 17 year Olds back to school on June 1st.

Why wouldn't we? What's been put in place to stop that?

Social distancing? Less people in supermarkets at any one time. No socialising. Working from home if you can. Avoiding public transport. Encouraging good hand hygiene. Gradually re opening instead of doing everything all at once.

Where have you been?

I don't think it's helpful if it hasn't been confirmed you've had it. We can't make decisions about schools based on people self diagnosing the virus, which lets be honest could be any virus at all.

So what figures are the government working from then? Given only people admitted to hospital were tested until very, very recently how do the government know how many children have had it or how many people they infected, if any? They weren't testing children, or their contacts, unless they were in hospital, so if you are dismissing cases unless proven by testing you also can't trust government guidelines either can you?

Social distancing? Less people in supermarkets at any one time. No socialising. Working from home if you can. Avoiding public transport. Encouraging good hand hygiene.

Some of those were in place before lockdown, some are now being lifted and some aren't being followed. Have you seen the tube in London??

So, as the country opens up, what's in place to stop a second wave?

So what figures are the government working from then? Given only people admitted to hospital were tested until very, very recently how do the government know how many children have had it or how many people they infected, if any? They weren't testing children, or their contacts, unless they were in hospital, so if you are dismissing cases unless proven by testing you also can't trust government guidelines either can you?

This is where the ONS sampling is important - the stuff they have been doing on current infection and then their expansion into antibody testing.

Interestingly, four associations of German paediatricians and infection experts have issued a joint statement calling for schools and nurseries to be fully reopened. They state that they are not high-risk environments.

I think the reason that R and year 1 has been chosen is because that missing school for 6 months (which would be the case if they did not go back until September), will be a huge chunk of their lives.
There may be very little formal learning in year R, but it is so important for their socialisation and development.
Year 6 was chosen, I believe, becasue this is their final year before secondary school, and a chance to prepare for the transition.
Years 10 and 12 were chosen, I believe, because they are in the middle of a 2 year course GCSE or A Level and again, missing 6 months is a huge chunck of school.
A Vaccine may be many years away, so schools have to reopen at some time. This staged approach is a good way of not reopening fully, and would be easy to reclose if there are any problems, than if the whole school opened at once. Secondly, by only opening part of the school, it enables otherwise free classrooms, to be used to split the class into smaller groups.
The Gov gave 3 weeks notice of the intended opening, and I would hope that Heads and / or senior teachers would have used the Gov guidance to work out how to open, what classes to use, how to stagger break times, etc

This is where the ONS sampling is important - the stuff they have been doing on current infection and then their expansion into antibody testing.

But a reliable antibody test has only just been found. How have they managed to sample and draw conclusions from enough school children, their teachers and families in order to conclude that children aren't a risk in such a short space of time? If those studies have been done why don't they release them so that we can see them? And if they are sure that children won't spread it in schools why are they implementing such strict controls in schools that make it intimidating for little children and also nigh on impossible for schools to function, you know, if it's all so safe and low risk?

In Covid research, they think children over 13 as are susceptible as the adult population and symptomatic at the same rates (but again tend to recover as they are young and healthy like all other under 45s). It’s the 0-13 age group they can’t work out.

Cohort studies in China and Italy, where sizeable population testing was done, suggested younger children just weren’t contracting it in any big number. However, there has been another testing done that showed children had it at the same rates as adults and had the same amount of viral load but were not symptomatic.

milveycrohn

But all primary years are to be back by end of June, with no rota system. How have government made it possible for schools to double staff plus classrooms to make this possible?

The school I know of isn't having staggered breaks - they aren't having breaks. They are allowing toilet breaks on a rota system, class by class, and all children will have to sit at s desk and do written work, no toys or play.

It's not about absolute safety, it's relative. Kids and most teachers are less likely to catch it and suffer badly than, say, 75 year old overweight men with diabetes. We need to stop expecting total safety - our kids are at risk every day, and lockdown is not safe either. Public health is about damage limitation not protecting every single person completely.

Oh god!

Right lets agree that nobody knows exactly what might happen and all we can do is get back to normal step by step and not let the NHS get overwhelmed.

It wasn't overwhelmed at the peak so we have every chance of that.

I think it's awful the way children are being treated like lepers by some people!

I've seen so many people complaining about people bringing young children to supermarkets. I'm a single mother but my children are older so I don't need to bring them but some single parents have no choice but to bring the young kids into the shops...and then people are tutting at them or making comments.

There are some adults who go to the supermarket every single day to get out...so the vast majority of their trips were not for essential supplies.

It is not a fair system...so adults can go to the shop multiple times a day if they wish but kids have to stay locked up in their house for months....or else they'll get dirty looks and treated like lepers probably by the same adults who are heading to the shops every single day of the week!!

It's not about absolute safety, it's relative. Kids and most teachers are less likely to catch it and suffer badly than, say, 75 year old overweight men with diabetes

Again, where's the data to support this? Maybe they don't die in the same numbers, but not as likely to catch it? Where's the data to show this? What about teachers who are vulnerable (not shielding) but have conditions that increase their risk? This all feels like a huge experiment to me. It might be ok, it might not. Oh well.