Children are not super spreaders, but answer me this...

[Happymind]

We can contract Covid 19 from objects so must take precautions... but not so much from children?

And children can go to school and be in contact with teachers, as they're not "super spreaders" but can not be around family members or grandparents outside their household?

The UK are following guidance from other countries regarding sending children back to school. They are reassured that there will be little or no covid outbreaks judging by other countries success. Yet the UK appear to be the only ones not providing PPE for students and staff?

Am I missing something?

@RB68

I agree if a person sneezes or coughs - but they do say it can be in droplets when someone is in conversation as well - so if you were face to face then surely there is more chance of even some of those droplets having an effect .

It’s actually safe enough for every one except those who are shielding ( just like you would have to against the flu) to come out of our hidey holes and get back to normal. All this is just crowd pleasing and politics.

I would feel much happier about these decisions to open up if we could actually access the science that the government is using to make these decisions.

Posters on many threads claim that opening up schools in other countries hasn't caused a spike in infections yet those countries are using methods to control the spread that we aren't using here, so how are they comparable to us?

A primary school local to me has explained what school will.lokk like for children that return - it's not what I would expose my children to. Children will be doing worksheets all day, no play time, no lunch time. Due to staggered start and end times the last children won't be in until 10.30am and home time will begin at 1.30pm for the ones in first. There will also be a rota for toilet access, done by class, with the whole class going at set times.

Yep, that all sounds like there's a high level in confidence as to how safe it is.

The reality is about 300 people under age 45 have died of CV19 and we are choosing to destroy the lives of the many to save the very few.

I am interested in the idea that losing a few more months off school will destroy children's lives more than losing a parent or grandparent to a virus they brought home.

Also, dying isn't the only way lives are affected by this virus. I have several friends who do not feature in any statistics but are still seriously ill after 7 or 8 weeks. They may or may not be able to return to work eventually. Do we really believe their children's lives have not been affected?

Do children live in a vacuum?

It’s actually safe enough for every one except those who are shielding ( just like you would have to against the flu) to come out of our hidey holes and get back to normal. All this is just crowd pleasing and politics.

Is it? Do you have the data available that backs this up? I'd love to read it.

I am a TA in one of the year groups due to go back. I have absolutely no problem going back into school and resuming my normal duties with a full class of 30. There is no more risk to me or the children now then there was in March before we closed. In most cases risk is significantly less. My own personal risk of catching it are way lower as before lockdown I was working in 1 school while my children travelled by public transport to their school. My dh was also travelling by packed train and tube into London each day. My dh is working from home now indefinitely, if my children go back then I will get them to walk or dh can take them in the car. The problem we have now is the mixed messages coming from government. On the one hand they want a gradual and phased opening of schools, all fine but they also want the schools to implement an education that is far from being normal with small bubbles, no mixing, no sharing of equipment and the myriad of other ridiculous guidance. Either schools are safe or they are not. If they are not safe now then keep them closed. If they are safe reopen gradually a year group a time if need be. Even if we get a vaccine we are likely to be in the same position in September. What then?. We can’t go on like this until everyone has been vaccinated. We need to learn to live with the virus and mitigate the risks where we can. In schools that’s teaching children about hygiene and proper hand washing, making sure they catch coughs and sneezes in tissues etc and ensuring schools are cleaned properly at the end of each day. We also need to dispense with the obsession with attendance, at least in the short term, so that parents keep children off school when they are ill instead of being pressured to send them in.

As school is now optional I predict that the most socially vulnerable children who really need to be in school won't be. A lot of families in this category have chaotic lives and given the choice will not get up in the morning to get their children up and ready for school.

I have several friends who do not feature in any statistics but are still seriously ill after 7 or 8 weeks. They may or may not be able to return to work eventually. Do we really believe their children's lives have not been affected?

Me too. One is now in their seventh week, still spiking fevers are severe breathlessness on exertion. No previous health problems. Also, not admitted to hospital but do far had four courses of antibiotics. This would be one of the "mild" cases I suppose.

If you look at the ONS data then throughout the entire duration of the pandemic there have been fewer deaths in the under 45s than would be expected in a normal year. This tells you everything you need to know about the risk to children, most parents and most teachers. Sadly, there have been 50,000 excess deaths almost all in the over 60s.

So the risk to your mum is massively different to the risk to your children and you. This is a disease of the elderly and late middle-aged.

We all want to go back but safety for everyone. In France kids are wearing face shields. In other countries masks for teachers and students. Denmark have installed outside sinks. All great ideas. What do we get ? Weak guidance that keeps changing.
I do wonder if there is something that happens to people in the public sector who are used to working by strict government rules all the time that they struggle to find (or even look for) solutions to things?
The government cannot give individual rules to each and every school-they are all in a different position. Surely it is up the the school managers to devise some kind of workable plan based on being as safe as reasonably possible?
I get it if the government are demanding all years back in full time (they'e not, are they?) but if there are fewer students I don't understand why schools can't spread them out in the hall, or do stuff outside, or operate a shift system? And yes I am sure these are all unworkable ideas for reasons but I am not a teacher, lots of you are and don't seem to have come up with any ideas.
There does seem to be an attitude of obstruction going on tbh. It wouldn't really wash in most industries.
And, yes, we need to go back to work for the economy, which means little things like food and shelter and taxes. Sorry about that.

I think there comes a time when you have to work it out for yourself.
My dc aren't little anymore, but I'll reserve judgement for a few weeks after the kids go back.
private schools are going back in september, my dd boarding school said it could be January, because of social distancing.

This tells you everything you need to know about the risk to children, most parents and most teachers.

That might be true if

We hadn't been on lockdown
No parents or teachers were over 45 or had any of the health conditions that make them vulnerable

X post cassgate you are the voice of reason!

I don't understand why schools can't spread them out in the hall, or do stuff outside, or operate a shift system?

They are going to spread the students out though. It's just that there are more children than available staff and spaces and the government have said no to a shift system.

Quite apart from Covid it is becoming increasingly apparent that the children whose education and social support will be the poorest children in our country. The behaviour of the Teachers Unions is not really in the true philosophy and principles of Socialism is it? The wealthier have better access to resources, internet, a quiet place to study, and sometimes parents btter able to home school. These children will fall behind in all ways if we dont get them back to school

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras
Here you go.......again
adc.bmj.com/content/archdischild/early/2020/05/05/archdischild-2020-319474.full.pdf

@cassgate
Good post

Yes, those people will have been infected prior to the schools opening but how many others will those 70 have infected in schools before they showed symptoms?

The economy will be even more buggered when the second wave hits. Because of our government's woeful inaction, it will be much worse.

I would be shocked if in the middle of a viral pandemic if any member of school staff were to ‘cuddle’ my child. The safety of the children is everyone’s responsibility and if my child can not be consoled with out physical closeness then I as the parent would want to collect my child.

Their safety should not be breached by staff cuddling or touching them at this time.

Obviously with the use of PPE including face mask for both staff and child protection then there would be less risk to staff and pupil

Why do people keep saying France has PPE in schools? Masks are optional there. They can be required if students cannot distance for developmental reasons or teachers need to be in close contact with students.

Does the UK guidance actually forbid wearing masks? Could schools require them if they wanted to?

@NoMorePoliticsPlease

That's an article about whether children are vectors for infection. That isn't confirming the post above that said it's safe enough for everyone who isn't shielding to come out of hidey holes and get back to normal. Where's the data that supports that claim?

Interestingly, this is the conclusion of the article that you linked to

Governments worldwide should allow all children back to school regardless of comorbidities. Detailed surveillance will be needed to confirm the safety of this approach, despite recent analysis demon-strating the ineffectiveness of school closures in the recent past

So, send the children back to school and then watch to see if that was a safe decision or not??

I will add to this debate. I agree wholeheartedly that schools should reopen.

I'd imagine a key reason that Government have announced the 1st of June for schools but not for any other changes is that, quite obviously, schools need time to prepare and 3 weeks was the indicated time. Schools are also not open (apart from to key workers) in those 3 weeks so people cannot think oh goody, it will be OK from next week so I will go back to school this week.

Families do not need 3 weeks to prepare to visit relatives and I can quite see plenty of muppets taking the opportunity to go early because it is allowed the following week.

Baby steps people.

I am 95% sure that I caught Covid-19 from my child, who caught it at school. This was before lockdown obviously and my child was unwell, so I kept her at home. Then a few days later the rest of us were ill. She had typical child symptoms AFAIK - upset stomach, mild fever, sore throat. There were other cases at her school. Some teachers were ill too.

DH and my other child were fine. I was pretty unwell, although not hospitalised, and was in bed for three weeks, ill for around six weeks total. I don't think children should go back to school in June - NOT for my own personal reasons, as it is likely we all have some degree of immunity. I don't believe it's the right thing for staff and parents. There is FAR too much focus on children not getting seriously unwell, rather than their parents or teachers, who are more vulnerable.

Reading the thread and agree with NoMorePolitics. It is emerging information so it seems ok to have been cautious thus far but as we have the key worker children as examples and the Australian study, to be read in context of course, I’m feeling more ok about the school situation.